[11575] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 5176 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Mar 19 09:07:30 1999
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 99 06:01:26 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 19 Mar 1999 Volume: 8 Number: 5176
Today's topics:
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b <leaper@bigfoot.com>
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b (Tim Roberts)
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b (Greg Gershowitz)
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b <banderson@boi.hp.com>
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b <jeff_kline@hopkins.k12.mn.us>
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b <barnesm@cain-travel.com>
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b <Rufus_Smith@GuntherIntl.com>
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b <bcornwell@mail.peds.lsumc.edu>
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b <csteger@derivatech.com>
Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **b tng@sosweb.net.nospam
Re: writing thumnails <dturley@pobox.com>
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 12:50:20 GMT
From: "Quantum Leaper" <leaper@bigfoot.com>
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7cth6c$pt6$1v@199.201.191.2>
Curt Steger wrote in message <36F161ED.C9F637C1@derivatech.com>...
>
>
>Quantum Leaper wrote:
>
>> Michael Barnes wrote in message <36efc6e7.0@news.webaccess.net>...
>> >Every MODEM has a MAC address also...so your friends pc is nicless, but
not
>> >macless
>>
>> Interesting is over 15 years of using modems, 300 baud to 56K modems
>> (hopefully a Cable or DSL modem in about a year or so), I have NEVER
heard
>> that they have a MAC address? So what command or how do you get the MAC
>> address of a modem? Does this only apply to Mac modems or all modems?
One
>> other question, why would a modem need a MAC address?
>
>Only if it is running on an Apple/Mac!
>
Why would it need a MAC address? MAC address is a unique number so that
NIC card can be found on the network. Unless the modem had a dual propose,
I see no reason why it would ever need a MAC address.
>Any here I thought that a MAC address was a special address book that
Billy-bum
>kept for retaliation if he ever took over the world. ?:^)
>
You do realize you only anwsered one of my questions.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:34:38 GMT
From: timr@probo.com (Tim Roberts)
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctjpe$pt6$1h9@199.201.191.2>
John Lehmann <johnl@axis.com.au> wrote:
>Kano wrote:
>>
>> Oh come on. Many other standard devices (ethernet cards, for example)
>> have their
>> own unique serial numbers that software can use at will. Get over it.
>>
>
>Yes - but ethernet mac cards are only broadcast over the lan, not over
>the net (except by Office98, of course).
The POINT here is that it is exactly as easy to embed my unique MAC address
in an Internet transaction as it is to embed my unique Pentium-III CPU ID
in an Internet transaction. Any software which will go to the trouble to
fetch the unique CPU identifier and send it over the network to identify me
could just as easily be written TODAY to use a MAC address for exactly the
same purpose. The CPU identifier is not significantly different in concept
from the MAC address, and yet there has not been a hue and cry to boycott
NIC manufacturers.
>And what do you mean get over it??? This kind of personal information
>is valuable. Business are willing to pay for it. This kind of
>behavior IS DOWNRIGHT THEFT!!!
But whatever they could do with a CPU ID, they are probably already doing
with a MAC address. It is just as good as a unique identifier. "Get over
it" is exactly the right attitude.
--
- Tim Roberts, timr@probo.com
Providenza & Boekelheide, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:35:56 GMT
From: root@aol.com (Greg Gershowitz)
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctjrs$pt6$1il@199.201.191.2>
Someone tell my why this is such a big deal? Every unix box in
existance has a unique ID. It's the hostid. What's it for?
Licensing, mostly. Of course unix licensing is far more mature than
for windows. Heck, even a 486 can be made to cough up a hostid. Of
course, I don't know of any cases where that hostid get transmitted to
a vendor, but what's to stop it from happening?
-Greg G
--
-Greg "TORCHA" Gershowitz
-DG3X's own Extreme Icon
To Reply: See the organization line
Spam sucks. Fuck you spammers. Have a Nice Day.
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5207
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:37:34 GMT
From: Bill Anderson <banderson@boi.hp.com>
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctjuu$pt6$1kc@199.201.191.2>
Tim Roberts wrote:
>
> John Lehmann <johnl@axis.com.au> wrote:
>
> >Kano wrote:
> >>
> >> Oh come on. Many other standard devices (ethernet cards, for example)
> >> have their
> >> own unique serial numbers that software can use at will. Get over it.
> >>
> >
> >Yes - but ethernet mac cards are only broadcast over the lan, not over
> >the net (except by Office98, of course).
>
> The POINT here is that it is exactly as easy to embed my unique MAC address
> in an Internet transaction as it is to embed my unique Pentium-III CPU ID
> in an Internet transaction. Any software which will go to the trouble to
> fetch the unique CPU identifier and send it over the network to identify me
> could just as easily be written TODAY to use a MAC address for exactly the
> same purpose. The CPU identifier is not significantly different in concept
> from the MAC address, and yet there has not been a hue and cry to boycott
> NIC manufacturers.
Ho wmany home users ar LAN connected to the internet?
oh, yeah, that's right, they dial up with a modem; no getting a MAC
address from a machine that does not have one.
>
> >And what do you mean get over it??? This kind of personal information
> >is valuable. Business are willing to pay for it. This kind of
> >behavior IS DOWNRIGHT THEFT!!!
>
> But whatever they could do with a CPU ID, they are probably already doing
> with a MAC address. It is just as good as a unique identifier. "Get over
> it" is exactly the right attitude.
Can you explain how they would be getting a MAC address from my friends'
NIC-less pc?
A MAC address is not as good, in any event. NICs get changed mor often
than cpus (in most cases). IIRC MAC addresses can be changed, and there
have been cases of MAC addresses beinf reused?
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:38:23 GMT
From: "Jeffrey S. Kline" <jeff_kline@hopkins.k12.mn.us>
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctk0f$pt6$1l7@199.201.191.2>
I just have to step on this one a moment...
Where did you learn computers??? Do you know what "hostid" is really, and
its use and implications??? Do you know about demons, zones, and domains????
I have one of probably 1628904823e4 host ID's on my server only because I
use the same IP as the ones stated in 3 different RFC's about internal
private networks...
Is this over your head yet???
You cannot identify my boxes, any of them, from any of the rest of them out
there in the world. Then there's the story about "Dynamic" IP's which opens
the doors and windows some more on this.... Wanna keep going with this??!!!
The Intel thing is a whole different bag of worms entirely.
Jeff
Greg Gershowitz wrote in message <36ee69a8.992557692@news.vnet.net>...
>
>Someone tell my why this is such a big deal? Every unix box in
>existance has a unique ID. It's the hostid. What's it for?
>Licensing, mostly. Of course unix licensing is far more mature than
>for windows. Heck, even a 486 can be made to cough up a hostid. Of
>course, I don't know of any cases where that hostid get transmitted to
>a vendor, but what's to stop it from happening?
>
>-Greg G
>
>--
>-Greg "TORCHA" Gershowitz
>-DG3X's own Extreme Icon
>To Reply: See the organization line
>Spam sucks. Fuck you spammers. Have a Nice Day.
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/5207
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:40:12 GMT
From: "Michael Barnes" <barnesm@cain-travel.com>
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctk3s$pt6$1n2@199.201.191.2>
Every MODEM has a MAC address also...so your friends pc is nicless, but not
macless
As far as I know you cannot network anywhere without a mac address since
IP's map directly to machine addresses at lower levels to identify your
particular machine on any network. So, if your connected to any network via
any hardware device (router, switch, modem, nic) those devices must have mac
addresses.
and modems are easy to replace compared to CPU's also...
Bill Anderson wrote in message <36EEB3DB.779FD60D@boi.hp.com>...
>Tim Roberts wrote:
>>
>> John Lehmann <johnl@axis.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> >Kano wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Oh come on. Many other standard devices (ethernet cards, for example)
>> >> have their
>> >> own unique serial numbers that software can use at will. Get over it.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Yes - but ethernet mac cards are only broadcast over the lan, not over
>> >the net (except by Office98, of course).
>>
>> The POINT here is that it is exactly as easy to embed my unique MAC
address
>> in an Internet transaction as it is to embed my unique Pentium-III CPU ID
>> in an Internet transaction. Any software which will go to the trouble to
>> fetch the unique CPU identifier and send it over the network to identify
me
>> could just as easily be written TODAY to use a MAC address for exactly
the
>> same purpose. The CPU identifier is not significantly different in
concept
>> from the MAC address, and yet there has not been a hue and cry to boycott
>> NIC manufacturers.
>
>Ho wmany home users ar LAN connected to the internet?
>oh, yeah, that's right, they dial up with a modem; no getting a MAC
>address from a machine that does not have one.
>
>>
>> >And what do you mean get over it??? This kind of personal information
>> >is valuable. Business are willing to pay for it. This kind of
>> >behavior IS DOWNRIGHT THEFT!!!
>>
>> But whatever they could do with a CPU ID, they are probably already doing
>> with a MAC address. It is just as good as a unique identifier. "Get
over
>> it" is exactly the right attitude.
>
>Can you explain how they would be getting a MAC address from my friends'
>NIC-less pc?
>
>A MAC address is not as good, in any event. NICs get changed mor often
>than cpus (in most cases). IIRC MAC addresses can be changed, and there
>have been cases of MAC addresses beinf reused?
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:40:33 GMT
From: "Rufus V. Smith" <Rufus_Smith@GuntherIntl.com>
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctk4h$pt6$1nf@199.201.191.2>
All that is needed to get to the dial up user is an address of the service
provider's modem that the user called in on!
This is obviously not unique to an individual.
The IP address he gets when he logs in is also out of a pool of addresses
and is also non-unique.
Michael Barnes wrote in message <36efc6e7.0@news.webaccess.net>...
>Every MODEM has a MAC address also...so your friends pc is nicless, but not
>macless
>As far as I know you cannot network anywhere without a mac address since
>IP's map directly to machine addresses at lower levels to identify your
>particular machine on any network. So, if your connected to any network
via
>any hardware device (router, switch, modem, nic) those devices must have
mac
>addresses.
>
>and modems are easy to replace compared to CPU's also...
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:41:11 GMT
From: "Brent Cornwell, Pediatrics Computer Administrator" <bcornwell@mail.peds.lsumc.edu>
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctk5n$pt6$1o7@199.201.191.2>
Greg Gershowitz wrote in message <36ee69a8.992557692@news.vnet.net>...
> Someone tell my why this is such a big deal? Every unix box in
> existance has a unique ID. It's the hostid. What's it for?
> Licensing, mostly. Of course unix licensing is far more mature than
> for windows. Heck, even a 486 can be made to cough up a hostid. Of
> course, I don't know of any cases where that hostid get transmitted to
> a vendor, but what's to stop it from happening?
the problem with Intel's PSN is not the fact that it actually HAS a serial
number, but their REASONING behind putting it in the chip. They said it
would improve e-commerce. HOW exactly would it improve it, other than verify
the identification of the computer (and possibly, but not always, the
user)... The problem comes in when (and i've already heard people wanting to
do this) web admins start to incorporate the processor identification into
their servers, so as to associate a specific serial number (the PSN of the
user's computer), with any and all accounts that user may have at that
website... That alone doesn't garuntee that the person using the computer is
the owner of the account... and also, making scripts with such an
association makes a mess and several arguments between user and webmaster,
when the user tries to access his/her accounts from another computer.
...and who's to say that the original owner of the processor isn't going to
sell it to someone else? and then they'd have "authorization" to access
his/her accounts?????!!!!
...and i'm sure crackers have already designed a worm to go around the web,
extracting serial numbers when it comes across P3 systems....
just a little to think about...
Brent Cornwell, Computer Support Administrator
Pediatrics Dept., LSU Medical
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:44:00 GMT
From: Curt Steger <csteger@derivatech.com>
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctkb0$pt6$1qo@199.201.191.2>
Quantum Leaper wrote:
> Michael Barnes wrote in message <36efc6e7.0@news.webaccess.net>...
> >Every MODEM has a MAC address also...so your friends pc is nicless, but not
> >macless
>
> Interesting is over 15 years of using modems, 300 baud to 56K modems
> (hopefully a Cable or DSL modem in about a year or so), I have NEVER heard
> that they have a MAC address? So what command or how do you get the MAC
> address of a modem? Does this only apply to Mac modems or all modems? One
> other question, why would a modem need a MAC address?
Only if it is running on an Apple/Mac!
Any here I thought that a MAC address was a special address book that Billy-bum
kept for retaliation if he ever took over the world. ?:^)
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 1999 13:44:48 GMT
From: tng@sosweb.net.nospam
Subject: Re: The truth about the Pentium III chip and ID --- **boycott info**
Message-Id: <7ctkcg$pt6$1rc@199.201.191.2>
On Wed, 17 Mar 1999 10:20:04 -0700, "Michael Barnes"
<barnesm@cain-travel.com> wrote:
true. but. MAC addresses on your modem go no further than your isp.
in fact, your isp doesn't even use your modems mac address because you
are assigned an ip addres that already has the mac address of the
modem you connected to so yours never goes out into the net.
your network also has a mac address. this address is used only by
your local network. I machine on a different network send you info,
they only know the ip address, this is send to the router the router
only know the mac address and ip address in your local network. If it
cannot find the destination, it forwards it the the next router which
again only know the mac address and ip address if its local network.
it does on the otherhand know which router to send it to based on ip
routing tables. this process is repeated until it finds the router
that knows the destination ip address and sends it to the isp's router
which then looks up the mac address and places the ip packet on th
ethernet with the destination ip and mac address only knowing the
source ip not mac. mac addresses are NOT forwareded accross even
subnets.
and just to show off, ISP equipment like an ascend or 3com total
control that has 48 modems, all 48 modems have the SAME mac address.
the modem server knows which modem to send it out on based on ip
address.
>Every MODEM has a MAC address also...so your friends pc is nicless, but not
>macless
>As far as I know you cannot network anywhere without a mac address since
>IP's map directly to machine addresses at lower levels to identify your
>particular machine on any network. So, if your connected to any network via
>any hardware device (router, switch, modem, nic) those devices must have mac
>addresses.
>
>and modems are easy to replace compared to CPU's also...
>
>
>
>Bill Anderson wrote in message <36EEB3DB.779FD60D@boi.hp.com>...
>>Tim Roberts wrote:
>>>
>>> John Lehmann <johnl@axis.com.au> wrote:
>>>
>>> >Kano wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Oh come on. Many other standard devices (ethernet cards, for example)
>>> >> have their
>>> >> own unique serial numbers that software can use at will. Get over it.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >Yes - but ethernet mac cards are only broadcast over the lan, not over
>>> >the net (except by Office98, of course).
>>>
>>> The POINT here is that it is exactly as easy to embed my unique MAC
>address
>>> in an Internet transaction as it is to embed my unique Pentium-III CPU ID
>>> in an Internet transaction. Any software which will go to the trouble to
>>> fetch the unique CPU identifier and send it over the network to identify
>me
>>> could just as easily be written TODAY to use a MAC address for exactly
>the
>>> same purpose. The CPU identifier is not significantly different in
>concept
>>> from the MAC address, and yet there has not been a hue and cry to boycott
>>> NIC manufacturers.
>>
>>Ho wmany home users ar LAN connected to the internet?
>>oh, yeah, that's right, they dial up with a modem; no getting a MAC
>>address from a machine that does not have one.
>>
>>>
>>> >And what do you mean get over it??? This kind of personal information
>>> >is valuable. Business are willing to pay for it. This kind of
>>> >behavior IS DOWNRIGHT THEFT!!!
>>>
>>> But whatever they could do with a CPU ID, they are probably already doing
>>> with a MAC address. It is just as good as a unique identifier. "Get
>over
>>> it" is exactly the right attitude.
>>
>>Can you explain how they would be getting a MAC address from my friends'
>>NIC-less pc?
>>
>>A MAC address is not as good, in any event. NICs get changed mor often
>>than cpus (in most cases). IIRC MAC addresses can be changed, and there
>>have been cases of MAC addresses beinf reused?
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1999 13:21:04 GMT
From: David Turley <dturley@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: writing thumnails
Message-Id: <7ctivp$q9g$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <7crn5a$6ov$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
horng@earthlink.net wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know perl can utilize the GD library to do some manipulation of gif files.
> Is it possible to use perl to create thumnail image for a gif file? How
> about any other format (jpg, bmp, tic, pic, etc)? Further, i would like to
> generate the image with minimum file size. I know there are some well-known
> software packages, eg. adobe imageready, can do that. I am looking for some
> way to automate the entire process (creating thumnails then optimizing the
> file size) with one call of perl script.
>
Randal Schwartz devoted a column to this recently.
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/WebTechniques/col29.html
Aditionally, there are numerous scripts available that do just this. What
happend when you searched some of the script archives posted on the net?
--
David Turley
dturley@pobox.com
http://www.binary.net/dturley
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
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]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 5176
**************************************
