[11175] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4776 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jan 29 01:07:18 1999
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 99 22:01:29 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 28 Jan 1999 Volume: 8 Number: 4776
Today's topics:
Re: Perl Criticism <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism (Sam Holden)
Re: Regex for splitting this... <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: Remove all non a-z characters? <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: Sending email (Ronald J Kimball)
Taint problem with FindBin (Bill Moseley)
Re: Taint problem with FindBin (I R A Aggie)
Re: Taint problem with FindBin (Sam Holden)
Re: Verify an email address (Davin Shearer)
Re: What's the character? <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Win32: passing values into functions <paullyb8@fnol.net>
Re: Win32: passing values into functions (Matthew Bafford)
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 04:47:46 GMT
From: @l@ <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <78rehg$l58$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <78lonn$qc1$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> > Java has no pointers, perl has no pointers (that I know of), both have
> > references, however.
> > Java doesn't have functions, but that's just a technicality.
> >
>
> Perhaps they are called "referants" or something in Perl.
Not close enough. Maybe you should read some more on Perl before criticizing
it. Actually, I am wondering if you have read the posting you replied for.
The word "references" is clearly mentioned there (yes .. look up), yet you
managed to come up with some awkward variant.
> They usually use the "/" operator and other variations I beleive.
Not close enough. Maybe you should read some more on Perl before criticizing
it. (Oh .. did I say that already? Maybe he didn't hear it the first time)
> I did not study them very well because frankly they confused the
> heck out of me after page 3 or so of that chapture.
They confused you, so you decided that they are not useful and that Perl is
bad. At the risk of sounding redundant, maybe you should read some more on
Perl before criticizing it.
> I do not see much use in them anyhow except
> to *compensate* for Perl's shortcommings, such as "leaky" parameter
> passing and only 1 dimensional arrays (or lack
> of table-orientedness). (I love that word "leaky"!)
Well, C's pointers are used to "compensate for leaky parameter passing".
Multi-dimensional data structures in C are really 1 dimensional arrays of
references (shh... don't tell anyone). Do you understand the concept of
pointers? I believe not, since if you did, references would have been a
breeze. If you didn't, then how the hell are you trying to design your own
language??
All this shows is your ignorance. You are proving every day what a bigger
troll you are.
> It still does not violate the "subatomic level" that I talked about
> on my web page. One can still tell what most of the peices (atoms) are
> even if they cannot easily tell what they do.
most??? what about all? some do violate your rules, but you choose to neglect
them?
Ok .. how does Perl code vialte that magical subatomic level? Do I have to
visit your webpage? I won't. You can tell the exact type of every Perl with
no effort at all. But .. why do I bother posting to this thread anyway?
--Ala
$monger->{montreal}->[0];
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Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:26:21 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <78rgpl$n1u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <slrn7ar3i0.jdl.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:43:25 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> >In article <slrn7anuqc.r09.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
> > sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
> >> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:19:57 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> >> >In article <slrn7aij5v.9ar.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
> >> > sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
> >> >> On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:11:27 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> >> >> >> It's possible to write unmaintainable code in any language.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >If I hear this flippen' MYTH stated one more time, I am going to
> >> >> >have Norton classify Perl as a virus.
> >> >>
> <snip some of the crap by me and topmind>
> >> So again I ask point me to a language in which it is impossible for me to
> >> write unmaintainable code. Back up what you say for once.
> >
> >
> >
> >You are making a gray issue into a black-and-white issue.
> >I will not fall for that fallacy. All langauges ARE abusable,
> >but NOT EQUALLY. Some encourage or allow more *or* different
> >"levels" of abuse than others.
>
> I never said that all languages are equally abusable.
>
> You said that there exists some language in which it is impossible to
> write unmaintainable code.
No where EXACTLY did I say this??????????????????
>
> Here's a point if you want people to actually listen to anything you might
> have to say then don't lie. Don't exagerate. Don't lie.
>
> Based on the posts I've read by you I can see why you find code
unmaintainable,
> you probably write code like the following...
>
> $bill *= 1.1; #subtract 20 from $bill
I dont get your point here.
>
> If you would actually be a little honest and not resort to lies to try and
> prove your points then people might actually pay atention.
>
> It no longer worries me that you called me dishonest, since you have lied so
> many times that I can expect everyone else will expect that you lied then
> too.
Other than the "dozens" fiasco (which was a mistake not a lie), name
one SINGLE lie!!!!!!
ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I was a liar, I would have lied when I typed the list of
languages I have used to add up to 24.
Also, I am trying to focus on something besides my personal
life and personal background. If we stay away from this
topic, then there is no reason to play these lawyer games.
>
> Since you refuse to answer any of my direct question, I thankfully will
> now say good-bye.
What is you direct question. I don't see it here.
>
> Have a wonderful day, just don't come and get a programming drop in Australia.
>
> --
> Sam
>
> "... the whole documentation is not unreasonably transportable in a
> student's briefcase." - John Lions describing UNIX 6th Edition
> "This has since been fixed in recent versions." - Kernighan & Pike
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:31:06 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <78rh2q$n5l$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <1dm6mh8.1s0ncsf12xdtq8N@roxboro0-019.dyn.interpath.net>,
phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) wrote:
> <topmind@technologist.com> wrote:
>
> > "express beauty in your code?" Exactly what is that?
> > Is that a selling point in your Perl brochure?
> >
> > "How will that help my bottom line?" a manager may ask.
>
> It get's you better programmers.
Does "better" mean fast but unreadable?
I listed my criteria on my webpage, you list yours.
>
> You remind me of a SF novel where some guy who thought he was a great
> manager wanted to put developing a totally new concept on a time table,
> and when the guy who was doing the work said it couldn't be done he
> wanted to fire him and move his assistant up to take over his job.
>
> People are important.
including the humans who have to read the hit-and-runners
code.
>
> --
> John Moreno
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
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------------------------------
Date: 29 Jan 1999 05:58:32 GMT
From: sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <slrn7b2jg8.56b.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>
On Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:26:21 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
>In article <slrn7ar3i0.jdl.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
> sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
>> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 17:43:25 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
>> >In article <slrn7anuqc.r09.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
>> > sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 04:19:57 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
>> >> >In article <slrn7aij5v.9ar.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
>> >> > sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
>> >> >> On Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:11:27 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
>> >> >> >> It's possible to write unmaintainable code in any language.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >If I hear this flippen' MYTH stated one more time, I am going to
>> >> >> >have Norton classify Perl as a virus.
>> >> >>
>> <snip some of the crap by me and topmind>
>> >> So again I ask point me to a language in which it is impossible for me to
>> >> write unmaintainable code. Back up what you say for once.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >You are making a gray issue into a black-and-white issue.
>> >I will not fall for that fallacy. All langauges ARE abusable,
>> >but NOT EQUALLY. Some encourage or allow more *or* different
>> >"levels" of abuse than others.
>>
>> I never said that all languages are equally abusable.
>>
>> You said that there exists some language in which it is impossible to
>> write unmaintainable code.
>
>
>
>No where EXACTLY did I say this??????????????????
In the quoted text above :
"It's possible to write unmaintainable code in any language."
"If I hear this flippen' MYTH stated one more time, I am going to
have Norton classify Perl as a virus."
If the statement "It's possible to write unmaintainable code in any language."
is a not true then simple logic will tell you that there must exist at least
one language in which it is impossible to wrote unmaintainable code...
>>
>> Here's a point if you want people to actually listen to anything you might
>> have to say then don't lie. Don't exagerate. Don't lie.
>>
>> Based on the posts I've read by you I can see why you find code
>unmaintainable,
>> you probably write code like the following...
>>
>> $bill *= 1.1; #subtract 20 from $bill
>
>
>I dont get your point here.
I was joking... lieing in comments results in very hard to read code...
>
>>
>> If you would actually be a little honest and not resort to lies to try and
>> prove your points then people might actually pay atention.
>>
>> It no longer worries me that you called me dishonest, since you have lied so
>> many times that I can expect everyone else will expect that you lied then
>> too.
>
>
>Other than the "dozens" fiasco (which was a mistake not a lie), name
>one SINGLE lie!!!!!!
>
>ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The above statement declaring something false when you knew it wasn't...
Calling me dishonest a while ago with no basis given - and thus no chance
for me to explain.
The dozens fiasco - I can't see how you could get something so basic wrong
without meaning too. But you may have, so it is not a real example, just
evidence for a tendency to exagerate...
>
>If I was a liar, I would have lied when I typed the list of
>languages I have used to add up to 24.
Just because someone lies does not mean they lie in all cases. I think
that is pretty obvious. Adding more would have resulted in people
aking for backup for languages they know but thought you might not.
>
>Also, I am trying to focus on something besides my personal
>life and personal background. If we stay away from this
>topic, then there is no reason to play these lawyer games.
I haven't talked about your personal life or background. I just said that
you seem to lie and exagerate a bit... I'm not playing lawyer games, I'm
asking you to back up your claims - a pretty normal thing to do.
>
>
>>
>> Since you refuse to answer any of my direct question, I thankfully will
>> now say good-bye.
>
>What is you direct question. I don't see it here.
Damn I said bye and I'm back again...
I asked you to point me to a language that it is impossible to write
unmaintainnable code in - numerous times...
I can't remember the other questions, and I no longer care, since I
stupidly thought you might want to learn from others and I thought I might
be able to dispute some claims. I no longer have the time or inclination to
try, since you insist on stating your opinions as fact and ignoring the
views of those who are much more experienced in the subject matter than
yourself. (I'm guessing at your experience level, but from the things you
have claimed, the languages you know I think it holds water).
--
Sam
Even if you aren't in doubt, consider the mental welfare of the person
who has to maintain the code after you, and who will probably put parens
in the wrong place. --Larry Wall
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:12:34 GMT
From: @l@ <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: Regex for splitting this...
Message-Id: <78rfvs$m8u$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <36AE5074.3F5D9A8B@home.com>,
ChuckPrice@home.com wrote:
> I've got the iterating through the files part working and I'm properly
> opening, reading, and closing the files, but I was hoping someone could
> help me with the regex to actually do the parsing of the code and text
> because all I've come up with won't work right. Here's what a line of
> code will possibly look like:
>
> MainDlg->LogMessagef("ERRCODE",
> "Text for error ERRCODE", blah, ...);
>
> (i.e. two lines) --or-- (one line like so:)
>
> MainDlg->LogMessagef("ERRCODE", "Same...", blah, ...);
Ok ... I would modify $/ to read a "line of code" instead of an actual line:
{
local $/ = ";";
while (<>) {
($code, $text) = (/\"(.*?)\"/g);
# now you should have your $code and $text properly set
}
}
Hope this helps,
--Ala
$monger->{montreal}->[0];
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 02:48:20 GMT
From: @l@ <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: Remove all non a-z characters?
Message-Id: <78r7hh$f98$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <36AD19A4.9B58C8FC@ngb.se>,
Staffan Liljas <staffan@ngb.se> wrote:
> Ken Williams wrote:
> > I have a string that can contain anything "t4(e3*s@22t".
> > How do pull out only the characters a-z.
>
> Easy:
> $string =~ s/[^a-z]//g;
I can do one step better:
$string =~ tr/a-z//cd;
Ala
$monger->{montreal}->[0]
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 23:28:12 -0500
From: rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball)
Subject: Re: Sending email
Message-Id: <1dmd72g.17dxonj1dw2gbdN@bay2-88.quincy.ziplink.net>
<info@gadnet.com> wrote:
> >> open (MEMBER, "+<$bpdata/$_.txt");
> >
> >You don't check the return value when you open the file.
>
> True, but that's not causing the problem.
How do you know? You said that no mail is being sent. If this open
fails, then the array you assign the input to is empty, and the text you
pipe to your mail program looks like this:
---
To:
From:
Subject:
---
which is one plausible explanation for the problem you are having.
That gives me an idea; how about, in addition to piping the text to the
mail program, you also print it to a logfile, so you can get a better
idea of what your program is doing.
> >> When I run the script that contains this I get a Server Error message.
> >> It sends three emails correctly, but then fails on the fourth. The
> >> fourth email address in the MEMBERS file is invalid, but I would
> >> expect it to send the email anyway. How can I change this so that it
> >> will work whether the email address of the recipient is valid or not?
> >
> >What do you mean by "invalid"?
>
> The email address in question looks like a real email address but is
> just a made-up one. It is possible though that some email addresses
> will just be gobbldygook. I suppose I could add some validation that
> email address look at the minimum like a@b.c, but I still need the
> script to work when these are not real email addresses.
How do you know the text file that you are trying to read from, based on
the e-mail address that you say is invalid, actually exists?
--
_ / ' _ / - aka - rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu
( /)//)//)(//)/( Ronald J Kimball chipmunk@m-net.arbornet.org
/ http://www.ziplink.net/~rjk/
"It's funny 'cause it's true ... and vice versa."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:44:39 -0800
From: moseley@best.com (Bill Moseley)
Subject: Taint problem with FindBin
Message-Id: <MPG.111adc963774d7d198968d@nntp1.ba.best.com>
Any suggestions where to look to correct this problem?
D:\>cat test
use FindBin;
D:\>perl -T test
Insecure dependency in chdir while running with -T switch at
D:\PERL5\lib/Cwd.pm line 262.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at D:\PERL5\lib/FindBin.pm line 185.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at test line 1.
Here's Cwd.pm line 262:
CORE::chdir($path) || croak "Cannot chdir to $path:$!";
And line 185 of FindBin is the closing brace of the module.
-------
D:\>perl -v
This is perl, version 5.005_02 built for MSWin32-x86-object
Copyright 1987-1998, Larry Wall
Binary build 507 provided by ActiveState Tool Corp.
http://www.ActiveState.com
Built 15:08:32 Nov 14 1998
--
Bill Moseley mailto:moseley@best.com
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jan 1999 05:13:45 GMT
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: Taint problem with FindBin
Message-Id: <78rg29$pfp$2@news.fsu.edu>
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:44:39 -0800, Bill Moseley <moseley@best.com> wrote:
+ Any suggestions where to look to correct this problem?
+ Here's Cwd.pm line 262:
+ CORE::chdir($path) || croak "Cannot chdir to $path:$!";
$path is insecure. You'll have to untaint it. See 'perldoc perlsec'
for more details.
James
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jan 1999 05:39:52 GMT
From: sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au (Sam Holden)
Subject: Re: Taint problem with FindBin
Message-Id: <slrn7b2id8.56b.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>
On 29 Jan 1999 05:13:45 GMT, I R A Aggie <fl_aggie@thepentagon.com> wrote:
>On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 20:44:39 -0800, Bill Moseley <moseley@best.com> wrote:
>+ Any suggestions where to look to correct this problem?
>
>+ Here's Cwd.pm line 262:
>+ CORE::chdir($path) || croak "Cannot chdir to $path:$!";
>
>$path is insecure. You'll have to untaint it. See 'perldoc perlsec'
>for more details.
Of course modifying the standard modules that come with perl is probably
not the best solution to a problem...
My copy of perl doesn't exhibit the any problems with FindBin (I missed the
original post, so I'm going by the subject...). The following doesn't
give any complaints :
#!/usr/local/bin/perl -T
use FindBin qw($Script);
print $Script;
--
Sam
"... the whole documentation is not unreasonably transportable in a
student's briefcase." - John Lions describing UNIX 6th Edition
"This has since been fixed in recent versions." - Kernighan & Pike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 00:38:34 -0500
From: davin1@access.digex.net (Davin Shearer)
Subject: Re: Verify an email address
Message-Id: <MPG.111b136790973347989681@news.mindspring.com>
In article <369914f6.148149139@199.166.4.3>, rzilavec@titan.tcn.net
says...
> I need a way to verify that an email address is the correct format,
> this is what I came up with but it doesn't completely work:
>
> $ii =~ /^.+\@.+[(.)](com|net|edu|gov|ca|org)/
>
> Richard
>
Basic syntax requires: one or more characters before the @ sign, followed
by an optional '[', then any number of letters, numbers, dashes or
periods (valid domain/IP characters) ending in a period and then 2 or 3
letters (for domain suffixes) or 1 to 3 numbers (for IP addresses). An
ending bracket is also allowed as it is valid syntax to have an email
address like: user@[255.255.255.0].
Try:
if ($in{'email'} =~ /(@.*@)|(\.\.)|(@\.)|(\.@)|(^\.)/ || $in{'email'} !~
/^.+\@(\[?)[a-zA-Z0-9\-\.]+\.([a-zA-Z]{2,3}|[0-9]{1,3})(\]?)$/)
{
print "Bad e-mail syntax\n";
}
else
{
print "Address syntax OK\n";
}
-Davin
Webmaster, The Storage Review
http://www.storagereview.com/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 03:27:18 GMT
From: @l@ <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: What's the character?
Message-Id: <78r9qe$h6q$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <78l12q$6hv$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
om7@cyberdude.com wrote:
> I'm writing some code, whereby I do a listing and have the results put in an
> array.
I'm hoping you mean Perl code!
[snip data]
> I'm having trouble determining what the line separting the data is. I've
> tested for it being undef and also a \n character, but that doesn't match. I
> need to determine what it is and how to check for it. I know I could get
It seems like a blank line .. you can test for blank lines easily using a
regexp:
print "It's blank" if $line =~ /^\s*$/;
Is that what you're asking for? You never showed some code.
> round it by checking if it's a string or something (or doing separate "ls
> -1"'s; I will do if I can't figure out anything else. And I don't want to do
> separate "ls -1" because that gives me a long list and I can't determine what
> files came from which directory.
I'm sure there is an easier way to do what you intend. Show us some code,
with a clearer explanation, and I'm sure someone will help you further.
> Can anyone help??
That's as much as I can do for you now.
Ala
$monger->{montreal}->[0]
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:29:07 -0500
From: Paul Bruno <paullyb8@fnol.net>
Subject: Win32: passing values into functions
Message-Id: <36B12B03.9D43F889@fnol.net>
Right now I am currently using the Perl interpreter from Active State,
and I am having problems with my subroutines. It is the latest build,
509. I have been learning Perl recently on a Win95 machine with the
venerable Learning Perl, and most everything works fine, except for one
thing: In Learning Perl, it states that when you pass a value into a
function, it is stored in the default @__ varible. Well, when I was
completing one of the chapter on functions exercises for this, I passed
it like so, "blah($num1)", with "blah" as the function name, but nothing
was given to the @__ varible. So my question is this: What does Active
Perl give the passed-on value to? What varible does it store it in?
Thanks for the help!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1999 05:02:55 GMT
From: dragons@scescape.net (Matthew Bafford)
Subject: Re: Win32: passing values into functions
Message-Id: <slrn7b2g1c.e8i.dragons@Server.Network>
On Thu, 28 Jan 1999 22:29:07 -0500, Paul Bruno <paullyb8@fnol.net> wrote:
[snip]
-> function, it is stored in the default @__ varible. Well, when I was
s/\@__/\@_/;
I don't have a LLama, so I can't say if it's a bug or a braino.
[snip]
-> was given to the @__ varible. So my question is this: What does Active
-> Perl give the passed-on value to? What varible does it store it in?
AS Perl is almost identical to the main dist. The only major differences
are to work around Win32 limitations.
-> Thanks for the help!
HTH!
--Matthew
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Well, after 6 months, here's the answer to the quiz: what do we do about
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]Date: 21 Sep 1998 19:53:43 -0700
]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 4776
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