[11155] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4756 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Jan 26 21:07:32 1999
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 99 18:01:33 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 26 Jan 1999 Volume: 8 Number: 4756
Today's topics:
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Regex for splitting this... <ChuckPrice@home.com>
Rencontre Perl de Mtl <trot@cam.org>
Re: Request for negative value list indexes (Abigail)
Re: Secuity hole with perl (suidperl) and nosuid mounts (Michael Van Biesbrouck)
Re: Sorting an Array (Robert Saunders)
Re: Sorting an Array (Abigail)
Test <jeff@toad.net>
Text Busy Error? mobystarbuck@hotmail.com
Re: using # as literal '#' in a cgi (Abigail)
Re: Version Check <nrd1mmc@nrd.ups.com>
Re: What's a script worth? (Simon Whitaker)
Re: Wnt: Simple script to search & replace through a ba (Tad McClellan)
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:05:00 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <78lonn$qc1$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <slrn7ao3ll.ssr.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:53:50 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> >In article <fl_aggie-2401991223510001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>,
> > fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie) wrote:
> >> In article <78bb49$p3$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, topmind@technologist.com
wrote:
> >>
> >> + In article <78a4cl$h97$2@newshost.oracle.co.uk>,
> >> + dherriot@uk.oracle.com (Des Herriott) wrote:
> >>
> >> + > It's possible to write unmaintainable code in any language.
> >> +
> >> + If I hear this flippen' MYTH
> >>
> >> Proof, please.
> >
> >
> >Mathematical?
>
> No proof as in evidence to back up your claim. In this case though you can
> prove you statement, since the statament you disagree makes a sweeping
> claim that it is possible to write unmaintainable code in _all_ programming
> languages. You disagree with this, and can prove your case by a simple
> contradiction.
>
> Just give us one example of a language in which it is impossible to write
> unmaintainable code and you will have proved your case.
>
> I doubt you can though, since you have been asked to do this a few times
> now and have refused.
>
> All I can conclude is that instead of saying you disagree with something, you
> declared it to be untrue. Now that is fine if you have some proof that it is
> false, or even have some evidence to support your case. I have evidence to
> support the case that the stamement was true. I can find unmaintainable code
> in every language that I can program in. So can all other programmers since it
> is not hard to write.
>
Okay Okay, I did not take that statement as literally as you did.
I was focusing on the LEVEL of abusability, not the all-or-nothing
of it. I believe the point the author of that statement made
would not be of any practical worth if I took the literal
interpretation. Therefore, I settled on the implied (by me?)
interpretation.
I apologize for not explicitly stating my interpretation
of that statement. I keep forgetting how literal
(us) technical people can be at times.
> [....]
>
> Java has no pointers, perl has no pointers (that I know of), both have
> references, however.
> Java doesn't have functions, but that's just a technicality.
>
Perhaps they are called "referants" or something in Perl.
They usually use the "/" operator and other variations I beleive.
I did not study them very well because frankly they confused the
heck out of me after page 3 or so of that chapture.
I do not see much use in them anyhow except
to *compensate* for Perl's shortcommings, such as "leaky" parameter
passing and only 1 dimensional arrays (or lack
of table-orientedness). (I love that word "leaky"!)
> [....]
> I suspect that cryptic code in java would take on a different form. I supect
> that form would more likely be a large collection of classes with a very
> very deep inheritance tree, lots of over-riding, and inner classes everywhere.
>
> Given a method call you couldn't tell what was being called and where without
> reading thorugh all the code... This is basically the same problem you have
> with C++ when people write stupid code...
>
> Anyway here's a peice of Java code what does it do? Note it isn't actually
> hard to work out, since it is very small and I haven't abused the language
> (sionce I don't have the docs in front of me or the time to bother)...
>
> class Crap {
> protected String Crap;
> public static void main(String[] args) {
> System.out.println(new Crap(){});
> }
> public Crap(String Crap) {
> this.Crap = Crap;
> }
> public Crap() {
> Crap = new Crap("crap") {
> public String toString() {
> for (;;) {
> try {
> return new Crap("a"){}.toString
();
> }finally{
> return new Crap("b"){}.toString
();
> }
> }
> }
> }.toString();
> }
> public String toString() {
> return Crap;
> }
> }
>
> So what does it do... how many classes are involved.. how many method calls
are
> made.. how many objects are created... None of those questions are hard, but
> I wouldn't want to have to deal with ten thousand lines of code like the
> above...
> --
> Sam
It still does not violate the "subatomic level" that I talked about
on my web page. One can still tell what most of the peices (atoms) are
even if they cannot easily tell what they do.
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:16:03 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <78lpcc$qrr$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <slrn7ao2fp.ssr.sholden@pgrad.cs.usyd.edu.au>,
sholden@cs.usyd.edu.au wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Jan 1999 03:44:28 GMT, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> >
> [ comments about if 'open(...) || die ...' ]
> >
> >
> >If not open(handle,filename) do die "Cant open $filename$"
> >
> >Which is not significantly different. "Do" means one
> >statement on the same line as a control statement.
> >(It was a suggestion, not a instantance.)
>
> That still draws more attention to the error instead of to the opening
> of the file.
How so? Because it starts with an IF statement?
To me it seems silly to invent multiple variations of IF's
to improve readability by 5%.
Also, if a program uses such a construct OFTEN, then write
a routine like this:
sub myOpen(handle, filename)
if not open(handle, filename)
die "Error: could not open file: $filename$"
endif
endsub
Then you could use Myopen without even worrying about Die.
Thus, if such a construct is infrequent, then over-all
readability is not really affected. And, if it *is* frequent,
you can make a routine that HIDES the details that
you WANT hidden.
With these 2 options, there is no reason to
invent GOOFY ways of iffing for a very *minimal*
readability increase.
Weigh weigh weigh the options!
>
> The 'open(...) || die ...' form of perl makes for very readable code where the
> wanted message to the reader is 'open this file (failing is not expected but
> if something strange happens then do this...)'.
>
> Whereas your form reads as check the value of this open call and do this if
> it is not true. The readers attention is attrcted to the unlikely case.
>
> --
> Sam
>
> You are bordering on ridiculous if you think you need to support your
> premises. Such an argument is an infinite regression.
> --George Reese in <wv0O1.1521$Ge.4809664@ptah.visi.com>
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 01:23:41 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <78lpql$r94$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <78kim7$pi1$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
droby@copyright.com wrote:
> In article <slrn7aokcu.doa.dformosa@godzilla.zeta.org.au>,
> dformosa@zeta.org.au (David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)) wrote:
> >
> > I think yoiu missunderstand the meaning of "shortcut" with regards to
> > boolean operators. Now in most langages a very simple optimisation is
> > done. Basicly if the compliler/interprator works out that a logical
> > espression's value can be retured without further evaluation it
> > doesn't continue with the operation. This is noramly call "shortcut
> > booleans".
>
> I think they're more commonly called "short-circuit", which describes
> the behavior neatly.
>
> The problem with our junior language designer's concept here is that if you
> lose the short-circuit for this neat trick, you lose the optimization that
> led to its availability.
Insults like this do not cover the fact that they are unnecessary,
and therefore not worth the readability risk.
>
> Avoiding the use of these for program flow control isn't necessarily bad, but
> prevention of this use would mean evaluating the whole expression when it's
> unnecessary, which is definitely a Bad Idea (tm).
IMO, short-circuting should be used to prevent the
use of an invalid or undefined result, NOT as an
'if' substitute. It is poor form.
Example of 'proper' use:
if defined(thingy) and thingy > 5
[do something]
endif
>
> I think they're very nice when used appropriately, as in the examples that
> have been cited in this thread.
>
> --
> Don Roby
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:40:18 GMT
From: Chuck Price <ChuckPrice@home.com>
Subject: Regex for splitting this...
Message-Id: <36AE5074.3F5D9A8B@home.com>
I'm a perl newbie and I've read the man pages on regular expressions and
I'm not quite getting the hang of it yet. I'm writing my first perl
script to extract some logfile codes and their descriptions from some
C++ source files and (hopefully!) create an html page documenting them..
I've got the iterating through the files part working and I'm properly
opening, reading, and closing the files, but I was hoping someone could
help me with the regex to actually do the parsing of the code and text
because all I've come up with won't work right. Here's what a line of
code will possibly look like:
MainDlg->LogMessagef("ERRCODE",
"Text for error ERRCODE", blah, ...);
(i.e. two lines) --or-- (one line like so:)
MainDlg->LogMessagef("ERRCODE", "Same...", blah, ...);
I'd like to end up with two variables $code and $text which would
contain the text between the respective "'s. Here's what I'm doing:
foreach $file (@files) {
open(IN, $file) or die "Error opening $file : $!\n";
LINE: while (<IN>) {
next LINE unless /LogMessagef\(\"|LogMessage\(\"/;
$code = (/LogMessagef\(\"|LogMessage\(\"/, $_);
print OUT $code;
}
close(IN) or die "Error closing input file: $!\n";
}
...needless to say, I need some serious help here. :/
TIA,
-Chuck
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:30:12 -0500
From: Trottinette <trot@cam.org>
Subject: Rencontre Perl de Mtl
Message-Id: <36AE6C1E.B7357265@cam.org>
Invitation ` la troisihme riunion des missionnaires Perl de Montrial
Pour savoir si cette invitation s'adresse ` vous, ripondez aux
questions suivantes:
Perl vous intiresse mais vous intimide? Vous avez de nombreuses
questions sur Perl qui restent sans riponses? Vous souhaitez un coup de
main pour commencer ` utiliser Perl? Oy encore vous voulez tout
simplement diguster une bihre avec d'autres programmeurs Perl?
Si vous avez ripondu oui ` une de ces questions, la troisihme riunion
des missionnaires Perl de Montrial est pour vous. Sans aucune
discrimination de plate-forme informatique (1), vous jtes invitis ` vous
joindre ` nous le mercredi le 3 fivrier 1999, ` partir de 17-18h00 au
bar Thursday's, 1449 rue Crescent, Montrial.
Si vous n'jtes pas baptisi encore, un des missionnaires prisents se fera
un grand plaisir de partager avec vous un peu de sa science et de sa
sapience de Perl contre un peu de houblon! Alors, n'hisitez pas et
venez dicouvrir un monde meilleur, le monde de Perl!
Troisihme riunion des missionnaires Perl de Montrial
Quand? Le mercredi le 3 fivrier 1999, ` partir de 17-18h00
Oy? Au bar Thursday's, 1449 rue Crescent, Montrial
1 - Vous trouverez parmi les missionnaires des gens qui travaillent sur
Unix, Mac, Windows et Amiga.
Pour information :
Nicolas Bertrand
trot@cam.org
http://montreal.pm.org
--
|| | | n i c o l a s b e r t r a n d
|| | |
|| | | i -> http://www.cam.org/~trot
|| | |
|| Uaeoen sedygopb rnnisa s, xpjriua, e eowh yausxeyl
|| | |
--
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1999 00:31:03 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Request for negative value list indexes
Message-Id: <78lmo7$ch9$3@client2.news.psi.net>
Ben Smith (bsmith@perf.zko.dec.com) wrote on MCMLXXIII September MCMXCIII
in <URL:news:36ACCA19.483DCAC2@perf.zko.dec.com>:
%% Perl Porters and Larry Wall,
%%
%% Wouldn't it be nice to be able to reference a list element from the end
%% as well as
%% from the begining.. $array[-1] would be equivalent to $array[$#array]
%% and
%% $array[-2] would be equivalent to $array[$#array-1].
$ perl -wle '@foo = (3, 4, 5, 6); print $foo [-1]'
6
$
Now, what where you asking again?
Abigail
--
sub _'_{$_'_=~s/$a/$_/}map{$$_=$Z++}Y,a..z,A..X;*{($_::_=sprintf+q=%X==>"$A$Y".
"$b$r$T$u")=~s~0~O~g;map+_::_,U=>T=>L=>$Z;$_::_}=*_;sub _{print+/.*::(.*)/s}
*_'_=*{chr($b*$e)};*__=*{chr(1<<$e)};
_::_(r(e(k(c(a(H(__(l(r(e(P(__(r(e(h(t(o(n(a(__(t(us(J())))))))))))))))))))))))
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:13:46 GMT
From: mlvanbie@hopper.math.uwaterloo.ca (Michael Van Biesbrouck)
Subject: Re: Secuity hole with perl (suidperl) and nosuid mounts on Linux
Message-Id: <F66qyy.6DM@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca>
The simple program indir, which is a general solution to the problem that
suidperl solves for perl, seems to avoid the problem with mounting.
Someone should look into this ... I haven't had the time to examine the
program to see why it realizes that the script I mounted by floppy drive
is bogus.
--
(*Michael Van Biesbrouck/UW CS Grad Student/MultiText RA*) r([k,X,_|T],[X|T]).
r([s,F,G,X|T],[F,X,[G,X]|T]). r([L|T],S):-a(L,[],R),a(R,T,S). r(X,Y):-v(X,Y).
v([X|T],[Y|T]):-r(X,Y). v([[X]|T],[X|T]). v([X|T],[X|U]):-v(T,U). a([],L,L).
a([X|T],L,[X|S]):-a(T,L,S). n(X,Z):-r(X,Y),!,n(Y,Z). n(X,X):-not r(X,_).
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:00:26 GMT
From: robert@iminet.com (Robert Saunders)
Subject: Re: Sorting an Array
Message-Id: <AE46D8B0D16076D7.7940BE1350AF7C14.9F6D525F80A1D59C@library-proxy.airnews.net>
On 26 Jan 1999 13:45:18 -0500, Uri Guttman <uri@home.sysarch.com>
wrote:
>>>>>> "RS" == Robert Saunders <robert@iminet.com> writes:
>
> RS> I got the code that I was working on, thank you for the reply though.
> RS> My code that works loos like this
>
> RS> I loaded my array into the @users_records with the bar as the
> RS> delimeter and it works like a charm..
>
>
>
> RS> @newlist = sort by_date_field @users_records;
>
> RS> sub by_date_field
> RS> {
> RS> @alist = split(/\|/, $a);
> RS> @blist = split(/\|/, $b);
> RS> if ( $alist[2] > $blist[2] )
> RS> {
> RS> return 1;
> RS> }
> RS> elsif ( $blist[2] > $alist[2] )
> RS> {
> RS> return -1
> RS> }
> RS> else
> RS> {
> RS> return 0;
> RS> }
> RS> }
>
>besides being very slow due to the splits inside the sub (use the
>schwartz(ian transform), luke!), you do a wasteful if/else clause. that
>is what the <=> operator is for:
>
> return( $alist[2] <=> $blist[2] )
>
>is all you need after the splits.
>
>much else could be done but that sin is hard to overlook.
>
>uri
>
>--
>Uri Guttman ----------------- SYStems ARCHitecture and Software Engineering
>Perl Hacker for Hire ---------------------- Perl, Internet, UNIX Consulting
>uri@sysarch.com ------------------------------------ http://www.sysarch.com
>The Best Search Engine on the Net ------------- http://www.northernlight.com
Thank you sir.. I did take that suggestion and it worked like a
charm..
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1999 00:32:06 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Sorting an Array
Message-Id: <78lmq6$ch9$4@client2.news.psi.net>
Robert Saunders (robert@iminet.com) wrote on MCMLXXIV September MCMXCIII
in <URL:news:7DD9BE30A2C5E7B9.E7272C7E08975226.03A894BD4FFAF954@library-proxy.airnews.net>:
//
// What am wanting to do is sort the Julian Date part of the record in
// accending order. I know how to do a normal sort.. but with the fields
// in each record I am at a loss..
FAQ
Abigail
--
sub f{sprintf$_[0],$_[1],$_[2]}print f('%c%s',74,f('%c%s',117,f('%c%s',115,f(
'%c%s',116,f('%c%s',32,f('%c%s',97,f('%c%s',0x6e,f('%c%s',111,f('%c%s',116,f(
'%c%s',104,f('%c%s',0x65,f('%c%s',114,f('%c%s',32,f('%c%s',80,f('%c%s',101,f(
'%c%s',114,f('%c%s',0x6c,f('%c%s',32,f('%c%s',0x48,f('%c%s',97,f('%c%s',99,f(
'%c%s',107,f('%c%s',101,f('%c%s',114,f('%c%s',10,)))))))))))))))))))))))))
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 19:50:18 -0500
From: Jeff Hester <jeff@toad.net>
Subject: Test
Message-Id: <36AE62CA.265DFE53@toad.net>
Could someone please post a quick reply to this. I'm wondering if My
posts are getting through.
thanx.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:21:01 GMT
From: mobystarbuck@hotmail.com
Subject: Text Busy Error?
Message-Id: <78likk$l9v$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Hi guys,
I get a 'text busy' error when I try to run my perl script... what on earth
does that mean? Thanks in advance.
-- Moby
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1999 00:35:42 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: using # as literal '#' in a cgi
Message-Id: <78ln0u$ch9$5@client2.news.psi.net>
schmale@my-dejanews.com (schmale@my-dejanews.com) wrote on MCMLXXIV
September MCMXCIII in <URL:news:78ke2s$lii$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>:
!! I have written a CGI script in perl and recieve input in the following manner:
!!
!! http://..../cgi/test?f=index.html#mydog
Not really.
!! now, the problem is that $ENV{QUERY_STRING} only contains:
!!
!! f=index.html
!!
!! when I want to have:
!!
!! f=index.html#mydog
!!
!! Is there anyway to accomplish this?
RFC 1768
Abigail
--
sub _'_{$_'_=~s/$a/$_/}map{$$_=$Z++}Y,a..z,A..X;*{($_::_=sprintf+q=%X==>"$A$Y".
"$b$r$T$u")=~s~0~O~g;map+_::_,U=>T=>L=>$Z;$_::_}=*_;sub _{print+/.*::(.*)/s}
*_'_=*{chr($b*$e)};*__=*{chr(1<<$e)};
_::_(r(e(k(c(a(H(__(l(r(e(P(__(r(e(h(t(o(n(a(__(t(us(J())))))))))))))))))))))))
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:39:07 -0500
From: "Murtuza Chhil" <nrd1mmc@nrd.ups.com>
Subject: Re: Version Check
Message-Id: <78ljmt$deb2@biko.telecom.ups.com>
Hi,
I am writing installation scripts using perl,
need to overwrite certain active X ocx / dll , hence I need to know the
version so that I don't overwrite the newer one with an olde one
Alastair <alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:slrn7aq09n.59.alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk...
>Murtuza Chhil <nrd1mmc@nrd.ups.com> wrote:
>>Hi,
>>Is there any way I could check the version of a dll or ocx , so that I do
>>not overwrite a newer version with an older one...
>
>Don't know. What's your perl question?
>
>--
>
>Alastair
>work : alastair@psoft.co.uk
>home : alastair@calliope.demon.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:49:07 GMT
From: simon@netcetera.org (Simon Whitaker)
Subject: Re: What's a script worth?
Message-Id: <36af4f71.43349537@news.u-net.com>
On 25 Jan 1999 18:30:22 GMT, Greg Ward wrote:
> Seems like
> a reasonable rate would be in the US$50-75/hour range, more if you're a
> wizard/guru-type who advertises your services in the back pages of the
> Perl Journal. (Hey, the gurus have to pay for their advertising!)
I'm definately down there at the fifty buck end of the scale at the moment.
> So, if you were in the US selling to a US company, you could multiply
> the number of hours spent developing the scripts by, say $50. (More if
> you figure you're worth it.) Not sure how consulting rates port to the
> UK, but you could try s/dollars/pounds/ and see if you get away with it.
OK, s/dollars/pounds/ sounds like a good deal to me.
Many thanks for your input,
Simon
--
Take a STAND against ill-considered UK anti-crypto legislation
currently under proposal -- http://www.stand.org.uk/step1.php3
[Please alter spam to simon if replying to me by mail. Thanks]
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:17:04 -0600
From: tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Wnt: Simple script to search & replace through a batch of files
Message-Id: <0ull87.f91.ln@magna.metronet.com>
[ Please limit your line lengths to 70-72 characters as
is Usenet custom
]
Mark Hamlin (mark.c.hamlin@bt.com) wrote:
: Does anyone have or can point me to a good script to munch through a group of
: files for a search & replace function. I'm a Perl newbie and need the above to
: change an embedded url in a bunch of scripts and HTML pages on my server, and as
: an exercise to figure out some more about Perl, i/o, & regexps. I've started on
: the script myself but my progress is very slow and although I've already learnt
: a fair amount, it will be a while before I want to put it on a live server.
UNTESTED!
perl -p -i.bak -e 's/oldURL\.com/newURL.com/g' `find . -name '*.html' -print`
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Well, after 6 months, here's the answer to the quiz: what do we do about
comp.lang.perl.moderated. Answer: nothing.
]From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
]Date: 21 Sep 1998 19:53:43 -0700
]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
]
]It is possible to subscribe to comp.lang.perl.moderated as a mailing list.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 4756
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