[11066] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4666 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jan 15 23:03:55 1999
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 20:01:27 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 15 Jan 1999 Volume: 8 Number: 4666
Today's topics:
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism (John Moreno)
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
Re: Perl Criticism topmind@technologist.com
perl to c translator <jcrst28@pop.pitt.edu>
Re: perl to c translator (Abigail)
Re: Please help me reading .csv textfiles <Russell_Schulz@locutus.ofB.ORG>
Re: Regex challenge (Abigail)
Re: Searching a string, with a headache dennis_marti@yahoo.com
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:40:34 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77ou71$ffo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <77nj7h$8io$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
droby@copyright.com wrote:
> In article <77hgnn$1u2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> > In article <369AD320.7F59EBC2@c-zone.net>,
> > chatmaster@c-zone.net wrote:
> > > [...]
> > > links, out of curiosity (for jobs) that you posted, and of course, I
> > > felt
> > > it "odd" that you claimed to be an expert in Perl programming, when you
> > > obviously aren't. That's all I said, you wacko... why is that sort
> > > difficult to read? After all, you posted it.
> >
> > I NEVER CLAIMED TO BE AN "EXPERT" YOU LIER!!!
> >
> > I claimed to know "some".
>
> You claimed to specialize.
Does one have to be an expert to specialize?
A foot doctor who just graduated is still a
specialist. "Specialist" primarily describes
one's focus, not necessarily their level of skill.
Anyhow, I know (or knew then) enough Perl to
write medium-level applications like hiearachical
discussion forums and others. One can write
fairly sophisticated software in Perl without
knowing a good many features of it in detail,
or knowing how to debug SOMEBODY ELSE'S
cryptic crap. I am honest about my Perl skill
level when asked by a potential employer.
I think somebody owes me an apology.
>
> *plonk*
> --
-tmind-
P.S., Anybody ever used the Gravity news reader? I cannot get it
to work.
> Don Roby
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:50:19 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77oup9$fuc$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <7798qf$ilm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
dturley@pobox.com wrote:
> Two questions I have are, if Perl is such a terrible language, why are you
> wasting time using it? Use something else if you don't like it!
1. Because it is not that bad if not in the hands of a cryptologist.
I did not say it was outright "bad". You are not reading me right.
Stop trying to build demons.
2. It is the only common MS alternative for web programming.
(Let's not get into a dispute over what "common" is.)
> If you think
> things could be done better, the source is freely available, why don't you fix
> it to suit your tastes?
>
> I suspect you can't.
Given enough time, I am sure I could. However, "time" is the magic word these
days.
>
> ____________________________________
> David Turley
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:55:26 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77ov2r$g9b$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <36a06b1a.10316966@news.highwayone.net>,
richardc@tw2.com (Richard Clamp) wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Jan 1999 16:17:42 GMT, droby@copyright.com wrote:
>
> >Perlers who think saving keystrokes is the ultimate goal? Where? Any of you
> >guys think that?
>
> Think it no, though it's occasionally been a game I've played with
> myself.
> When I do it's in the same context as an artist who makes a portrait
> out of toast squares. There for the challenge and fun of doing it,
> not as a matter of course.
I told you so! Some programmers write cryptic code out of
the shear challenge of jaming as much "functionality" into
as small a space as possible. Call it
"College Phone-booth Programming".
>
> Damnit, and I so wanted to avoid this thread...
>
> Richard
> --
> Richard Clamp richardc@tw2.com
> Frisbeetarianism, n.:
> The belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets
stuck
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:02:54 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77ovgr$gfc$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <77o97e$pvg$2@marina.cinenet.net>,
cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry) wrote:
> Michael D. Schleif (mds-resource@mediaone.net) wrote:
> : Craig Berry wrote:
> : > Michael D. Schleif (mds-resource@mediaone.net) wrote:
> : > : Yes, a single, discrete element can also be a subset of a set of
> : > : elements.
> : >
> : > No it can't; it can be a member (perhaps the only member) of a subset,
> : > however.
> :
> : subset n : a set each of whose elements is an element of an inclusive
> : set
>
> Note the distinction between elements (aka members) and sets. A set has
> elements. An element is not a set. An element is in a set.
>
> : Clearly, one (1) is a number. Depending on *your* sources and context,
> : a set of one (1) is trivial, but entirely possible. A set of one (1)
> : obviously qualifies by this definition of subset.
>
> Of course. My only point is that A is different from { A } -- that is,
> the element A is different from the set containing only the element A.
>
> : Would you say, therefore, that a subset *is not* a member of any set?
>
> No. Sets can be elements in other sets (or in themselves, if you get into
> the weirder limits of set theory).
>
> : Or, that a set *cannot* be a member of a greater, but at this moment
> : unknown, set?
>
> Of course not. A set is an element of a potentially infinite number of
> sets.
>
> : If a group of members can be a subset of some set and you
> : remove one member at a time from that group, at what point is that
> : `group' no longer a subset?
>
> Careful with the wording here. If your group is a set which is itself a
> member of the larger set, removing the last member leaves the empty set as
> a member of the larger set. If the group is just part of the list of
> members of the larger set, then removing the last member of the group
> leaves an empty subset.
>
> [snip]
> : > Similarly, fuzzy concepts like "scripting language" allow us to reason
> : > about languages about which we know almost nothing. The danger is that we
> : > may draw false conclusions, or misclassify languages, but again,
> : > categorization works because/when it's right more often than not.
> :
> : Craig, come on! What you have written is clear to me and with it, in
> : and of itself, I take no issue. Simply because we can distinguish
> : between any two (2) entities, is that reason to change either?
>
> Of course not, and I didn't say or imply so.
>
> : Is topmind's contention that Perl should be changed simply because we
> : *can* discern between scripting and non-scripting languages? IMHO, it
> : appears that he `implies' that their is something intrinsically *wrong*
> : with scripting languages -- proof of that is _what_ I do not see . . .
I am not bashing scripting languages! It was not me who brought up
the issue of scripting/non language dichotomies here.
"Scripting Language" is useful for discussing categories in the
same way music analysts might talk about "country music".
There aint no clean boundries, but that is no reason to
abandon the phrase (unless better categ. tools come along.)
>
> He does, and I disagree. I simply felt the need to defend one small part
> of his argument from unwarranted attack. I have this quixotic streak in
> me at times. :)
I does what?
>
> : That that proof may, indeed, be explicit in his arguments, and that I
> : simply *do not* see it, is possible. Enlighten me ;)
>
> I'll have to leave that to him, I'm afraid.
>
> --
> | Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
> --*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
> | "The hills were burning, and the wind was raging; and the
> clock struck midnight in the Garden of Allah."
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:08:28 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77ovr7$gqd$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <77gvqa$jrq$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
dturley@pobox.com wrote:
> In article <77g7p5$f1n$1@nnrp2.dejanews.com>,
> topmind@technologist.com wrote:
>
> > Perler's actually have
> > contests to see who can write and read the most cryptic code.
> > "Nerd Machoism" is what I call it.
>
> So? Just because you _can_ do something that makes no sense, youshould scrap
> the ability? People drive their cares really fast and die, should we take out
> the gas pedals?
It encourages bad coding and feeds into the negative
stereotypes that Perl has.
Why not have readability contests?
>
> Guess you'll have to call me a name again.
I only fire when fired upon.
>
> David, still not afraid to sign my naame.
>
> ____________________________________
> David Turley
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:11:31 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77p00u$gu6$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <369FBF66.FE892313@ngb.se>,
Staffan Liljas <staffan@ngb.se> wrote:
> John Moreno wrote:
>
> > Turing complete langauge--there is literally nothing that you can do
> > in one language that you can't do in another (not necessarily with the
> > same amount of code of course).
>
> Well, Turing really talks about machines, and machines that have an
> infinite amount of memory. In the real world, yes, a task you can
> accomplish in one language that is Turing complete would work in another
> language that is complete -- only maybe not on the same machine, as the
> usage of memory depends strongly on the language. The time the task
> would take to perform by the machine is not constant either...
>
> So there are other sides to it. There is nothing you can do in one
> language that you cannot do in another only holds if you assume that the
> other language has a computor powerful to complete the task in that
> language, and this is off course not always true. (In these days, I
> would say it depends on other factors, like operating systems too).
>
> > Language choice is about personal likes and dislikes, and strengths
> > and weaknesses for particular tasks, not about raw capabilities.
>
> Not entirely true. Some languages are plain bad. They use the resources
> in an inefficient way, and in this way, the number of tasks you can
> actually perform with them, even if they are complete, might be much
> smaller than the tasks you can perform in another language.
>
> There is also a difference on the level (off course). Some languages are
> just not able to go into the detail needed for some tasks.
>
> Appart from this you have the preferences of the programmer, as you
> mentioned. It has to be possible for the programmer to develop the
> program in the language.
>
> I find that perl fulfill these demands in a way that is convenient to
> me.
Are they convenient for your employer or the future followup
programmer who has to read your code?
The avg. progmr. turnaround is something like 30 months, aint it?
>
> Staffan
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:26:07 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77p0s8$hni$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <369C643D.D1F775@gatewest.net>,
Andrew Johnson <ajohnson@gatewest.net> wrote:
> [cross quoted from several postings]
>
> topmind wrote:
> ! code and realize that the system is composed of 30,000 lines
> ! of code that looks something like this:
> !
> !
> ! perl -le
> '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
> ! $t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
> ! $x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x"'
> ! '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
> ! $t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
> ! $x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x"'
> ! '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
> ! $t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
> ! $x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x"'
> ! '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
> ! $t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
> ! $x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x"'
> !
> ! Can you spell B.A.N.K.R.U.P.T.C.Y ?
> !
> ! Of course this is an extreme example, but it happens on this and
> ! smaller scales all the time.
>
> point to one example! ... no, I meant one example in the "real
> world" ... a real example of purposely obfuscated perl code (that
> was not intended for a contest). [you do seem to think that the 'real
> world' really exists and that it harbours deep rooted problems ...
> so, show us anything to back your claims
>
I have not seen it in Perl, but in almost every other system
that I was a followup person for. I truely doubt Perlers are
immune or better tought readibility skills. It is obvious
that they where only interested in finishing and don't care
about maintainability costs (they don't pay 'em).
> ! > It's called a code-review... But you won't care so why am I
> bothering.
> !
> !
> ! Few companies actually spend the money or time for such.
> ! I am not against it, but just saying that it will not
> ! occure very often, just like training.
>
> ok, so you want to blame a language for the hiring practices of
> some company?
It is a general rule of business that without feedback
and monitoring, things don't happen. Since
businesses are too lazy to monitor code practices, it
makes sense that the language should offer some protection
from "subatomic level" abuse.
I am not an extremist on this issue. I am only suggesting
a COMPROMISE. The OOPers are the other extrem.
> I simply have to ask now ... Are you a manager? Have
> you ever been one? Have you ever hired a programmer? Are you a
> programmer that has ever worked for a manager? Do you have any idea
> at all about what you are talking about? or did you just not get a
> job and can't handle not being qualified for something?
>
> [and somewhere else]
> ! I haven't seen code review happen in the workplace, and I am
> ! in no position to start it.
>
....
>
> [and somewhere else, regarding the importance of implementation]
> ! Why do some see this as the litmus test for language ideas?
> ! I don't get it. (Other's say the litmus test is reading
> ! 100 academic books.)
>
> implementation allows others to try your ideas...if you think your
> ideas are that worthwhile, implement them and see what the rest of
> the world thinks (at worst you'll have your own language that you can
> do whatever you like with).
But there are already dozens of projects being started or
done by others. I am only asking them to consider my
suggestions. Why re-invent the wheel when many others
are currently re-inventing it. Very inefficient.
>
> Like I said before ... design a language for idiots and the best you
> can hope for is a language that attracts its intended audience ---
> good luck.
Design a language for cryptologists and the best ......
>
> andrew
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/langopts.htm
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:50:24 -0500
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <1dlp2in.tav7zh4tv3qlN@roxboro0-062.dyn.interpath.net>
Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
> John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
> : Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
> : > John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
> : > : Turing complete langauge--there is literally nothing that you can do in
> : > : one language that you can't do in another (not necessarily with the same
> : > : amount of code of course).
> : >
> : > Nothing purely computational, of course (and yes, this is a nit, but an
> : > often important one). You can't write a serial I/O driver if your chosen
> : > language provides no way to hook into OS calls, absolute addresses, or
> : > other device-specific goodies. And you probably can't write it in an
> : > interpreted language, either, given the tight timing constraints involved.
> :
> : Well, technically speaking I don't think that either one of these are
> : *absolute* barriers, but practically speaking they (and space) might as
> : well be.
>
> It is perfectly feasible to create a Turing-complete (save the infinite
> storage space aspect) computing environment which cannot access underlying
> machine resources. The JVM 'sandbox' springs immediately to mind (and
> yes, I know it has flaws, but these could in principle be remedied). As
> for timing, if I create a straw-man C-like language in which every
> statement is guaranteed to take one or more seconds to execute, then it
> cannot (in a strong sense) be used to write a low-level high-speed serial
> driver.
Use the language to write a program that as it's output produces a
program which doesn't have the same problems. Then use /that/ as your
high-speed serial driver.
> : Still, "is it possible" is the wrong, question -- the right
> : question is "can it easily", and that question will soon lead you to the
> : correct answer: use the right tool for the job.
>
> Of course. The Turing identity argument is an intriguing philosophical
> point, but has little practical value.
Neither does asking "is it possible" --- "can it easily", "would you
like to use it to", "does it facilitate" /these/ are questions you ask
about a language. Pointing out that theoretically all Turing complete
languages are equal, is (hopefully) a way of moving the discussion
towards such questions.
Now if some asks what language you want to use to do X and you answer
"Turing complete" then you've got to be joking or insane, because
otherwise you wouldn't say such a foolish thing.
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:35:26 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77p1du$i5a$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <yl1zkz5v2a.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>,
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
> topmind <topmind@technologist.com> writes:
> > Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
>
> >> That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that given an
> >> experienced programmer, it really doesn't matter that much, and given
> >> inexperienced programmers, it's noise lost in the other things that
> >> will be problematic.
>
> > Lack of experience is not what I am fussing about. It is those who take
> > shortcuts at the expense of others or the longer term integrity of the
> > system.
>
> Which is something that one learns not to do with experience. Sure, there
> are some experienced programmers who still aren't very good programmers,
> but most people learn with time.
Why would they learn something that there is no reward for?
>
> Taking shortcuts that hurt code maintainability is bad programming. If
> one is plagued by bad programming, one should hire good programmers;
They usually do anyway because the perpetrator moves on after
a while. Besides, you can only test for skill, not MOTIVES.
> changing the programming language is likely, in my opinion, to still leave
> you with the same problem.
>
I think it can reduce the problem, not eliminate it. Take the
Camero away from the lead-foots and give them a Chevy Chevette.
Here is an excerpt from one of my anti-OOP webpage:
"Software building and maintenance can be likened somewhat to automobile
repair. When you take your car into the mechanic, your primary concern is that
he/she fix the problem and make the car run. It is possible that the mechanic
uses shortcuts that get the job done a bit faster and cheaper, but perhaps
leave you with other, long-term risks. For example, they may use cheap parts,
use wire that corrodes when placed near certain vents or parts, not fully
tighten a hard-to-get-to nut, etc. Most of these shortcuts may not surface
until several years later. How do you know if such shortcuts were taken?
If you worry about it, you could pay another shop to perform an inspection.
However, not all shortcuts can be traced back to the mechanic who took it.
Also, how do you know that the inspector is not bad-mouthing the last mechanic
just to get your business? (I used to often legitimately badmouth the work of
prior programmers and designers, although it usually falls on deaf ears and
makes one sound like a whiner.)
And, when the shortcuts finally do produce problems years down the road, how
do you know which mechanic made them?
And, if you do find out who the "perpetrator" is, they may no longer be at the
same shop.
And, if by chance they are still there, how are you going to punish them? You
can stop going there, but they already have your money from years back. Keep
in mind that they may have done a good job of solving the immediate problem
and getting you back on the road, so you have little reason to harbor too
much bad feelings.
Sure, there are good mechanics who take the time to do the job right, but
these will be the minority if there is no feedback mechanism to encourage
long-term planning and decisions. Such a mechanic will see that a coworker
gets the job done 20% faster if some short-cuts are taken. To management and
the customer, this person looks like they are 20% more efficient. And, if
management later finds out about the shortcuts, a case can be made that it
brought in 20% more profits with little or no measurable evidence of customer
loss. (An experienced mechanic eventually learns which shortcuts are the
least likely to be detected or traced.) "
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:40:39 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77p1nn$ia2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <slrn79oute.34e.dformosa@godzilla.zeta.org.au>,
dformosa@zeta.org.au (David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)) wrote:
> In article <77hhu6$2sb$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >Lack of experience is not what I am fussing about. It is those
> >who take shortcuts at the expense of others or the longer term
> >integrity of the system.
>
> I've writion very short scripts whos lifetime is only as long as they
> remained in my history file. They purly existed to get one job done
> and only that job, now given these have no long term intergaty why
> should I write them in such a way?
Certainly not!
Perl is ideal for these kinds of tasks.
That is not application type I am fussing about.
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 03:43:57 GMT
From: topmind@technologist.com
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77p1ts$ib5$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <slrn79p437.34e.dformosa@godzilla.zeta.org.au>,
dformosa@zeta.org.au (David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)) wrote:
> In article <77himo$3en$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, topmind@technologist.com wrote:
> >In article <369ABB34.16E5B504@mediaone.net>,
> > "Michael D. Schleif" <mds-resource@mediaone.net> wrote:
>
> [...]
>
> >> Many of us here who have participated in this thread are living better
> >> today than ever -- and Perl, the status quo and its dialectic,
> >> evolutionary path, has contributed to that.
> >
> >Are you judging Perl by its ability to project your job by
> >being too hard for a new programmer to figure out?
>
> No he is not, he is judging it by how much it improves his life. If
> it makes my life better, makes me and outhers happy then I think it is
> good.
>
> Its not anything about spagetty code, its about writing what I think
> and it working. All programing langs should alow my to put my thourts
> down on paper.
>
I am not sure what you are saying. It almost sounds like a
John Lennon song. (to me)
> --
> Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia. See
> http://www.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html to find out more.
> How to win arguments on usenet http://www.zeta.org.au/~dformosa/usenet.html
>
>
-tmind-
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/6888/
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:46:45 +0000
From: Jeff Rametta <jcrst28@pop.pitt.edu>
Subject: perl to c translator
Message-Id: <369FFD95.22FFD9C6@pop.pitt.edu>
anybody know of a perl to c translator?
thanks
jeff
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jan 1999 03:30:48 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: perl to c translator
Message-Id: <77p158$eb8$1@client2.news.psi.net>
Jeff Rametta (jcrst28@pop.pitt.edu) wrote on MCMLXIV September MCMXCIII
in <URL:news:369FFD95.22FFD9C6@pop.pitt.edu>:
''
'' anybody know of a perl to c translator?
FAQ
Abigail
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:30:30 -0500
From: Russell Schulz <Russell_Schulz@locutus.ofB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Please help me reading .csv textfiles
Message-Id: <19990115.213030.1V2.rnr.w164w@locutus.ofB.ORG>
bart.lateur@skynet.be (Bart Lateur) writes:
>> double the quotes? why? looks even more confusing to me.
>
> The custom, as done by other programs. I think Excel does it this way.
> At least, the result, though less readable, is unambiguus.
also see the comp.apps.spreadsheets FAQ for a discussion of CSV files.
The FAQ list for comp.apps.spreadsheets can be found on the Internet:
<ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/comp.apps.spreadsheets/faq>
<http://www.faqs.org/faqs/spreadsheets/faq/>
--
Russell_Schulz@locutus.ofB.ORG Shad 86c
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jan 1999 02:58:09 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Regex challenge
Message-Id: <77ov81$e0g$6@client2.news.psi.net>
Greg Bacon (gbacon@itsc.uah.edu) wrote on MCMLXIII September MCMXCIII in
<URL:news:77okn1$76p$1@info.uah.edu>:
__ In article <77o2po$899$4@client2.news.psi.net>,
__ abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes:
__ : m {${\('&?' . (join '&?' => split // => 'table') . '&?')}};
__
__ I read his request as "table" with exactly one ampersand. Your regular
__ expression would match "&t&a&b&l&e&" as well.
Yes, that's what I wrote.
__ I think it be something
__ like
__
__ my $amp = '(?:&(?!.*?&))?';
__ m {${\($amp . (join $amp => split // => 'table') . '&?')}};
__
__ would do that.
But that would fail on "a ta&ble and a foo&". I assume this
table-with-ampersand is part of a larger string, otherwise, a handful
of 'eq' operators will do; or a hash in case multiple words need to
be checked.
Abigail
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 16 Jan 1999 02:50:56 GMT
From: dennis_marti@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Searching a string, with a headache
Message-Id: <77ouqd$fvo$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <369f3db0.2660665@news.mtt.net>,
gigatronman@email.com (Giga Tron) wrote:
>
> I have to read a file that can be any size, and contain unstructured
> data. The file could be like this.
>
> stuff|morestuff*morestuff*morestuff*morestuff|evenmo ...
Let Perl find your record separators.
Take a look at the $/ special variable.
Dennis
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Well, after 6 months, here's the answer to the quiz: what do we do about
comp.lang.perl.moderated. Answer: nothing.
]From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
]Date: 21 Sep 1998 19:53:43 -0700
]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
]
]It is possible to subscribe to comp.lang.perl.moderated as a mailing list.
]To do so, send mail to majordomo@eyrie.org with "subscribe clpm" in the
]body. Majordomo will then send you instructions on how to confirm your
]subscription. This is provided as a general service for those people who
]cannot receive the newsgroup for whatever reason or who just prefer to
]receive messages via e-mail.
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
article to perl-users@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
appeared last in the newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send
perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 4666
**************************************
