[11063] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4662 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jan 15 19:03:52 1999
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 99 16:00:25 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 15 Jan 1999 Volume: 8 Number: 4662
Today's topics:
Re: @ARGV and $_ Question <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: A newbie who needs some help <tonylabb@infonline.net>
Re: A newbie who needs some help <tonylabb@infonline.net>
Re: BUG in perl 5.00502? (Ilya Zakharevich)
Re: Can I use perl with https? richaney@my-dejanews.com
Re: cat filename | wc -l perl equivalent <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: cat filename | wc -l perl equivalent <jhi@alpha.hut.fi>
CGI solution sought <c.coughlan@ucl.ac.uk>
Re: CONCLUSIVE PROOF: Jesus *is* King of the Jews ! <joemama@roundtrip.net>
Re: does globbing remember? <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: glob error (Tad McClellan)
glob() returns empty joshchou@my-dejanews.com
Re: How can I send mail with file ? <preble@ipass.net>
looking for serial to socket program kos@tdd.hbo.nec.com
Re: Losing linefeeds when encrypting email [SOLUTION] <jackr@informix.com>
Re: max. length of perl regexp <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Re: more efficient error handling (Tad McClellan)
Re: more efficient error handling (Charles DeRykus)
newbie installation problems <byike@gate.net>
Re: Perl and Cybercash (Bernie Cosell)
Re: Perl and LDAP richard.motley@lmco.com
Re: Perl Criticism (Craig Berry)
Re: Perl Criticism <staffan@ngb.se>
Re: Perl Criticism (John Moreno)
Re: Perl Criticism (Craig Berry)
perl for win32 development (Eric Smith)
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:24:43 -0500
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: @ARGV and $_ Question
Message-Id: <x3yd84gqo6t.fsf@tigre.matrox.com>
Rafiq Mateen <rafiqmateen@netscape.net> writes:
> > don't post with mime. usenet is a text only medium.
>
> My settings do not show MIME format will keep researching thank you.
I believe that is called "HTML format" in regular browsers like IE or
Netscape. There should be an option to disable that in the Mail
options menu.
> > RM> print;
> > RM> # or
> >
> > RM> print "\n";
> >
> > that will just print a blank line. only a naked print uses $_ by default.
>
> Actually it printed both ways for me.
That is not possible. Are you sure? what is the version of Perl you're
using?
Ala
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:00:05 -0500
From: Tony Labbiento <tonylabb@infonline.net>
Subject: Re: A newbie who needs some help
Message-Id: <369FAC55.8950E4E2@infonline.net>
Erik van Roode wrote:
>
> Danny Downs wrote:
> >
> > I am writing a perl script that would ask you to enter a username and
> > password then telnet to a mail server and take the value of the username and
> > the password and enter them once you connect to the mail server.
> > For example you would enter the username "bob" and the password "bob1". once
> > a connection to the mail server is made the script would initatate the
> > 'user' command and the 'pass' command using the value that you entered
> > above. What my problem is is that I can't get the 'user' and the 'pass'
> > command to type out once I connect to the mail server. Can anyone help me
>
> General response to 'newbie who needs help':
> - Check dejanews for other articles in this newsgroup on this subject,
> there have been quite a few.
> - use the -w and strict
> - check all open, check all things that can possibly go wrong and handle
> those cases.
> - read the relevant documentation. If you don't know what is relevent,
> consider everything relevant ;)
> - If that still doesn't help, post a _short_ fragment that exhibits the
> problem.
>
> Specific help:
> - Assuming you're not using the Net::Telnet module: start using it
Why not just use the Net::Pop3 module?
>
> Erik
> --
> Sure, doesn't everyone sign up for internet service so as to have
> their mailbox stuffed with megabytes of postage-due rubbish every day?
> Absolutely. And everyone who owns a car intends that it be used as a
> portable dumpster. Any unwanted garbage in their vehicle they can
> simply throw away, after all.
--
****************************************
* Tony Labbiento *
* Infinity Online, Inc. *
****************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:02:54 -0500
From: Tony Labbiento <tonylabb@infonline.net>
Subject: Re: A newbie who needs some help
Message-Id: <369FBB0E.FEC6FE39@infonline.net>
Erik van Roode wrote:
>
> Danny Downs wrote:
> >
> > I am writing a perl script that would ask you to enter a username and
> > password then telnet to a mail server and take the value of the username and
> > the password and enter them once you connect to the mail server.
> > For example you would enter the username "bob" and the password "bob1". once
> > a connection to the mail server is made the script would initatate the
> > 'user' command and the 'pass' command using the value that you entered
> > above. What my problem is is that I can't get the 'user' and the 'pass'
> > command to type out once I connect to the mail server. Can anyone help me
>
> General response to 'newbie who needs help':
> - Check dejanews for other articles in this newsgroup on this subject,
> there have been quite a few.
> - use the -w and strict
> - check all open, check all things that can possibly go wrong and handle
> those cases.
> - read the relevant documentation. If you don't know what is relevent,
> consider everything relevant ;)
> - If that still doesn't help, post a _short_ fragment that exhibits the
> problem.
>
> Specific help:
> - Assuming you're not using the Net::Telnet module: start using it
Why not use the Pop3Client module?
>
> Erik
> --
> Sure, doesn't everyone sign up for internet service so as to have
> their mailbox stuffed with megabytes of postage-due rubbish every day?
> Absolutely. And everyone who owns a car intends that it be used as a
> portable dumpster. Any unwanted garbage in their vehicle they can
> simply throw away, after all.
--
****************************************
* Tony Labbiento *
* Infinity Online, Inc. *
****************************************
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jan 1999 21:11:06 GMT
From: ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich)
Subject: Re: BUG in perl 5.00502?
Message-Id: <77oata$5j5$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Larry Rosler
<lr@hpl.hp.com>],
who wrote in article <MPG.11091fd3d9b9bfde989994@nntp.hpl.hp.com>:
> > $data=~s/z($uname)\z/&uuline($1)/gie;
> ^
> The problem is that backslash. In 5.005, '\z' has acquired its own
> semantics.
>
> From perldelta:
>
> New regular expression constructs
>
> The following new syntax elements are supported:
>
> ...
> \z
>
> From perlre:
>
> \z Match only at end of string
>
> In 5.004 or before, '\z' simply meant 'z' by default. So if you take
> out the superfluous backslash, all should be well.
Yet newer Perls may even start to warn you when unrecognized escapes
are encountered. I do not remember whether I added this for RExen
only, or include strings escapes too.
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:50:07 GMT
From: richaney@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: Can I use perl with https?
Message-Id: <77od6a$122$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
An easy way to test this is to try to call the script directly with SSL,
through your browser. If your browser displays the script itself, then the
ScriptAlias isn't configured for the SSL.
Rich
In article <369D85B5.CF9C4504@his.com>,
Chris Morrow <morrowc@his.com> wrote:
> You rproblem is MOST LIKELY with the configuration of the Secure
> Server... the Normal HTTP server is recognizing your cgi-bin directory,
> the Secure server is NOT...
>
> Easy fix would be to have the ISP add your CGI-BIN to the ScriptAlias
> line of the secure server (ScriptAlias is a NCSA/APACHE thing... on NT
> or NS it's a bit different syntax/naming)
>
> -Chris
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:47:43 -0500
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: cat filename | wc -l perl equivalent
Message-Id: <x3yaezkqn4i.fsf@tigre.matrox.com>
abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes:
>
> perl -wlpe '}$_=$.;{' filename
>
excuse me? but that works!
could some kind soul consider elaborating more on this please?
Just when I thought Perl wouldn't surprise me anymore!!!
------------------------------
Date: 16 Jan 1999 01:27:49 +0200
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@alpha.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: cat filename | wc -l perl equivalent
Message-Id: <oeeww2o86bu.fsf@alpha.hut.fi>
Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com> writes:
> abigail@fnx.com (Abigail) writes:
>
> >
> > perl -wlpe '}$_=$.;{' filename
> >
>
> excuse me? but that works!
>
> could some kind soul consider elaborating more on this please?
Take a close look at what perlrun says about -p.
After that, it's trivial. :-)
--
$jhi++; # http://www.iki.fi/jhi/
# There is this special biologist word we use for 'stable'.
# It is 'dead'. -- Jack Cohen
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 21:55:45 GMT
From: "cathal coughlan" <c.coughlan@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: CGI solution sought
Message-Id: <01be40d1$22a90f80$3cc666c3@e-base.u-net.com>
Sorry to barge in here like this, but I was wondering if anyone would be
interested in selling me a perl solution which would be capable of
receiving a textarea full of information from a html form, inputting it to
a database (delimited text pref) and adding it to a dynamically-generated
html page full of the same.
Probably sounds facile to a serious programmer, but I really would be
willing to pay a reasonable amount of money for this.
Replies to: mail@e-base.org.uk
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:41:02 -0800
From: Joe Mama <joemama@roundtrip.net>
Subject: Re: CONCLUSIVE PROOF: Jesus *is* King of the Jews ! ! !
Message-Id: <369FD20E.191F@roundtrip.net>
sam Taylor wrote:
> de KO6JQ,
Hey KO6JQ, do you live in the SF Bay Area, cuz unless it's someone else
with the "JQ" and a different prefix, or i'm confusing it with an old
friend who is a "DJQ," I've heard your call before..
> the best thing Christians can pray for, is a little balance in the
> lives of those whom think that they nust preach in every newsgroup or
> every 5 killocycles on the HF bands
Heheheh.. It's been a while, but you must be referring to 40 meters..
--
-jm
---
To reply no spam, change "roundtrip" to "rarebird"
cuz for the spam it's gonna be a literal round trip..
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 16:09:47 -0500
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: does globbing remember?
Message-Id: <x3y7luoqm3p.fsf@tigre.matrox.com>
Trent <trent@jps.net> writes:
> I can open a series of text files and place the contents
> into an array, but is it possible to recover/identify what
> lines came from which original file? I'm thinking a hash,
> but then again I'm fairly new at this.
It all depends on how you do it. Could you show us some code?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:29:11 -0600
From: tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: glob error
Message-Id: <70jo77.vhj.ln@magna.metronet.com>
Jan Schipmolder (schip@lmsc.lockheed.com) wrote:
: Etienne Pollard (not@giving.it.out) wrote:
: : Tad McClellan wrote:
: :
: snip
: : >
: : > You cut/pasted it into this article, or you typed it in?
: It must have been typed, since it's not !# but #!
: : !#/usr/bin/perl
: :
: : @another = </home/webroot/*>;
I'm gonna ignore him from now on then.
He doesn't appear to want my advice.
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:10:02 GMT
From: joshchou@my-dejanews.com
Subject: glob() returns empty
Message-Id: <77oebh$23m$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
below are portions of my code,
$browsedir = $q->path_translated();
@files = glob("$browsedir\\webview\\*");
i'm trying to write a cgi which will take the portion of the url
after the script, as a directory reference; and then list the
files in that directory.
i'm running apache 1.3.4 for win32, windows nt server 4, and perl build 509.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:29:44 -0500
From: "E. Preble" <preble@ipass.net>
Subject: Re: How can I send mail with file ?
Message-Id: <QkPn2.460$24.1446@news.ipass.net>
I've got a PERL script at my site that can send file attachments
from a form input.
See
http://www.datatrendsoftware.com/cgi.html
Automail Lite is the script I'm referring to.
Hope this helps.
E. Preble
--
Datatrend Software
http://www.datatrendsoftware.com
mailto:info@datatrendsoftware.com
Grab It! software for Excel 97
Digitizes data from charts and graphs
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bo Meyer wrote in message
<369f6398.448329695@news.euroconnect.dk>...
On Tue, 05 Jan 1999 01:02:45 +0800, Mecer <k25@ms4.hinet.net>
wrote:
>I want to send mail with mail...
>But I don't know how to use any module or function to
>compress files with base64...
>Is there any module or function which can do this ?
>How to decompress files ?
>Please teach me...Thanks...
PerlFAQ:
How do I decode a MIME/BASE64 string?
The MIME-tools package (available from CPAN) handles this and a
lot
more. Decoding BASE64 becomes as simple as:
use MIME::base64;
$decoded = decode_base64($encoded);
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:06:02 GMT
From: kos@tdd.hbo.nec.com
Subject: looking for serial to socket program
Message-Id: <77oe42$21k$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Greeting!
I am currently working on an assignment that requires a serial I/O handling
program (running on NT 4.0) talking to other programs through a socket. At
this moment, I had collected the following information:
1. I would like to see a program, once started, translate serial I/O into
socket interface. In another word, by reading/writing the socket, I am
reading/writing the serial port. This will simply our design a lot.
2. some said, I can simply open WinSock, and I've got a socket interface
on the serial port. However, I was not able to verify it yet.
3. I hope there would be something that adds a socket layer to the serial
port already available in the perl / tcl / C* communities. Any TTY program
should be pretty close to what I am trying to do. I also heard that "expect"
(a tcl module) allows accessing the serial port from a remote machine.
Any pointer, suggestion, or comment is solicited. Thanks in advance.
Shang Ko
Eluminant Technologies
kos@tdd.hbo.nec.com
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 14:36:02 -0800
From: Jack Repenning <jackr@informix.com>
Subject: Re: Losing linefeeds when encrypting email [SOLUTION]
Message-Id: <369FC2D2.FF2294F9@informix.com>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------47DDC6A5FF68CDBA0E0B36B0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
James Cameron wrote:
> Even though I had ASCII
> armoring on, it was the "-t" flag that resolved the carriage
> return/linefeed problem.
Completely different things. Armor is about the ciphertext: "now that
it's encrypted, it's all binary; how can I mail it?" Text-mode is about
the cleartext: "should I, like every other communications protocol
before me, bow down to the senseless vaguaries of uncooperative
operatings systems, with regard to how they end text lines?"
--------------47DDC6A5FF68CDBA0E0B36B0
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="jackr.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Jack Repenning
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="jackr.vcf"
begin:vcard
n:Repenning;Jack
tel;work:(650) 926-1044
x-mozilla-html:TRUE
adr:;;;;;;
version:2.1
email;internet:jackr@informix.com
x-mozilla-cpt:;0
fn:Jack Repenning
end:vcard
--------------47DDC6A5FF68CDBA0E0B36B0--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:05:37 -0500
From: Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@matrox.com>
Subject: Re: max. length of perl regexp
Message-Id: <x3yemowqp2n.fsf@tigre.matrox.com>
Daniel Grisinger <dgris@moiraine.dimensional.com> writes:
> > Nope ... and to prove it, get a copy of the Owls book (Mastering
> > Regular Expressions, by Jeffrey Friedl) and open page 316.
> > There, he lists a regex that is 6,598 bytes long for verifying email
> > addresses.
>
> I hardly think that a single 6k example can be held up as proof that
> perl regular expressions have no limits.
On second thought, I agree. It's not a proof, but it was worth
pointing out (IMO) as most (all?) people around this newsgroup will
never ever come up with a regexp that long.
Ala
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 15:52:12 -0600
From: tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: more efficient error handling
Message-Id: <cado77.50j.ln@magna.metronet.com>
Christian M. Aranda (christian.arandaNOSPAM@NOSPAMiiginc.com) wrote:
: I've been trying to find a more efficient way to handle errors in my
: script, but have come up short. Here is what I have thus far:
: &VanOpenConnection returns a negative number if it doesn't execute
: properly. I don't, however, need to save the number it returns. I
: thought of using || die much in the same way you would with opening
: files, but I don't believe that evaluates properly.
So change what it evaluates so that it will be proper ;-)
$conn = VanOpenConnection(...) >= 0 || die "...";
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:45:04 GMT
From: ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Charles DeRykus)
Subject: Re: more efficient error handling
Message-Id: <F5MHv4.MEG@news.boeing.com>
In article <77o4dm$blt$1@news-1.news.gte.net>,
Christian M. Aranda <christian.arandaNOSPAM@NOSPAMiiginc.com> wrote:
>Folks -
>
>I've been trying to find a more efficient way to handle errors in my
>script, but have come up short. Here is what I have thus far:
>
>$conn = &VanOpenConnection($vantive_id, $vantive_pw, $vantive_host,
>$vantive_port);
>
>&err_msg("fatal", "Unable to connect to $vantive_host",
>"VanOpenConnection", $conn) if ($conn < 0);
>
>&VanOpenConnection returns a negative number if it doesn't execute
>properly. I don't, however, need to save the number it returns. I
>thought of using || die much in the same way you would with opening
>files, but I don't believe that evaluates properly.
>
maybe, something like this:
&VanOpenConnection(,..) > 0 or
&err_msg(...);
or,
&err_msg(...) unless
&VanOpenConnection(...) > 0;
hth,
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 18:41:48 -0500
From: Michael Hearn <byike@gate.net>
Subject: newbie installation problems
Message-Id: <Pine.A41.4.03.9901151834070.41256-100000@dakota.gate.net>
I am trying to install perl 5.005-2 on a Red Hat Linux 5.1 486 machine.
When I try to run the 'Configure' script using:
sh ./Configure
I get endless errors scrolling down the screen:
: command not found
: command not found
: No such file or directory
I assume that bash cannot interpret the shell script. I must be missing
something simple. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 20:58:58 GMT
From: bernie@fantasyfarm.com (Bernie Cosell)
Subject: Re: Perl and Cybercash
Message-Id: <36a1a9a2.81223741@news.infoave.net>
} bshaffer932@my-dejanews.com wrote:
} >
} > I am faced with writing a perl script that integrates with cybercash... I
} > have no idea where to start, does anyone know of any places with some good
} > examples, advice, or whatnot?
Nathan Young <nyoung@silcom.com> wrote:
} The cybercash website has some understandable example scripts. They're
} a little hard to find, but keep at it, they're there somewhere. You'd
} think as an internet commerce "pioneer" cybercash would have a well
} organized web site, but no...
GAd, you folks who put comments first [instead of after the quotes] make
having any sort of discussion hard......
Anyhow, this isn't good advice. The scripts on the CyberCash website are
all for the *old* version of the Cash Registger, and aren't going to work
quite right if you use the new code. If there are any examples using the
new interface, I haven't found them yet.
There are a bunch of PDF docs on the CC web site that are pretty useful.
Indeed, the CashRegister Service Development Guide is *CRUCIAL* if you are
going to do your own interface development, and the MCK Guide is pretty
helpful if you're trying to do anything that looks vaguely like interfacing
to a CGI-based web ordering system.
Also, the MCK that you got when they set up your merchant account *DOES*
include new-cash-register scripts, they're just a bit hard to sort out
[because they're 99% CGI/messwiththeweb, and only 1% "actually talk to
CyberCash"], but it is in fact pretty easy... what you'll need to
understand is &SendCC2_1Server.
That said, this newsgroup is almost surely the wrong place to be asking:
you should contact CyberCash tech support and they'll give you some help in
figuring things out.
/Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com Pearisburg, VA
--> Too many people, too few sheep <--
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 22:44:11 GMT
From: richard.motley@lmco.com
Subject: Re: Perl and LDAP
Message-Id: <77ogbp$3qb$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
How would I go about using the simple authentication feature of PerLDAP to
validate users of a website. I have an ACL presently, and have exported the
users to an LDIF file. This is as far as I have gotten, other than building
the PerLDAP and testing items such as a simple user verification through a
command prompt. Here is a sample of what I have done:
use Getopt::Std;
use Mozilla::LDAP::Conn;
use Mozilla::LDAP::Utils;
$conn = new Mozilla::LDAP::Conn($host, $port);
die "No LDAP connection" unless $conn;
$base= "o=Netscape";
$user="test";
$password = "password";
$entry = $conn->search($base, "sub", "(uid=$user)");
if (! $entry)
{
print "User Not found";
exit (-1) unless $entry;
}
$ret = $conn->simpleAuth($entry->getDN(), $password);
if (! $ret)
{
print "Password does not match. ";
print "Please Try Again";
exit (-1) unless $ret;
}
else
{
while ($entry)
{
$entry->printLDIF();
$entry = $conn->nextEntry();
}
}
$conn->close if $conn;
How would I take something like this and have Netscape Server use this type of
perl script?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Richard Motley
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
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------------------------------
Date: 15 Jan 1999 21:03:34 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77oaf6$pvg$3@marina.cinenet.net>
John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
: Turing complete langauge--there is literally nothing that you can do in
: one language that you can't do in another (not necessarily with the same
: amount of code of course).
Nothing purely computational, of course (and yes, this is a nit, but an
often important one). You can't write a serial I/O driver if your chosen
language provides no way to hook into OS calls, absolute addresses, or
other device-specific goodies. And you probably can't write it in an
interpreted language, either, given the tight timing constraints involved.
--
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| "The hills were burning, and the wind was raging; and the
clock struck midnight in the Garden of Allah."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 23:21:26 +0100
From: Staffan Liljas <staffan@ngb.se>
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <369FBF66.FE892313@ngb.se>
John Moreno wrote:
> Turing complete langauge--there is literally nothing that you can do
> in one language that you can't do in another (not necessarily with the
> same amount of code of course).
Well, Turing really talks about machines, and machines that have an
infinite amount of memory. In the real world, yes, a task you can
accomplish in one language that is Turing complete would work in another
language that is complete -- only maybe not on the same machine, as the
usage of memory depends strongly on the language. The time the task
would take to perform by the machine is not constant either...
So there are other sides to it. There is nothing you can do in one
language that you cannot do in another only holds if you assume that the
other language has a computor powerful to complete the task in that
language, and this is off course not always true. (In these days, I
would say it depends on other factors, like operating systems too).
> Language choice is about personal likes and dislikes, and strengths
> and weaknesses for particular tasks, not about raw capabilities.
Not entirely true. Some languages are plain bad. They use the resources
in an inefficient way, and in this way, the number of tasks you can
actually perform with them, even if they are complete, might be much
smaller than the tasks you can perform in another language.
There is also a difference on the level (off course). Some languages are
just not able to go into the detail needed for some tasks.
Appart from this you have the preferences of the programmer, as you
mentioned. It has to be possible for the programmer to develop the
program in the language.
I find that perl fulfill these demands in a way that is convenient to
me.
Staffan
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Jan 1999 17:52:30 -0500
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <1dlolyq.19zib2dzz9ck1N@roxboro0-062.dyn.interpath.net>
Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
> John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
> : Turing complete langauge--there is literally nothing that you can do in
> : one language that you can't do in another (not necessarily with the same
> : amount of code of course).
>
> Nothing purely computational, of course (and yes, this is a nit, but an
> often important one). You can't write a serial I/O driver if your chosen
> language provides no way to hook into OS calls, absolute addresses, or
> other device-specific goodies. And you probably can't write it in an
> interpreted language, either, given the tight timing constraints involved.
Well, technically speaking I don't think that either one of these are
*absolute* barriers, but practically speaking they (and space) might as
well be. Still, "is it possible" is the wrong, question -- the right
question is "can it easily", and that question will soon lead you to the
correct answer: use the right tool for the job.
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jan 1999 23:38:24 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Perl Criticism
Message-Id: <77ojhg$cqp$1@marina.cinenet.net>
John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
: > John Moreno (phenix@interpath.com) wrote:
: > : Turing complete langauge--there is literally nothing that you can do in
: > : one language that you can't do in another (not necessarily with the same
: > : amount of code of course).
: >
: > Nothing purely computational, of course (and yes, this is a nit, but an
: > often important one). You can't write a serial I/O driver if your chosen
: > language provides no way to hook into OS calls, absolute addresses, or
: > other device-specific goodies. And you probably can't write it in an
: > interpreted language, either, given the tight timing constraints involved.
:
: Well, technically speaking I don't think that either one of these are
: *absolute* barriers, but practically speaking they (and space) might as
: well be.
It is perfectly feasible to create a Turing-complete (save the infinite
storage space aspect) computing environment which cannot access underlying
machine resources. The JVM 'sandbox' springs immediately to mind (and
yes, I know it has flaws, but these could in principle be remedied). As
for timing, if I create a straw-man C-like language in which every
statement is guaranteed to take one or more seconds to execute, then it
cannot (in a strong sense) be used to write a low-level high-speed serial
driver.
: Still, "is it possible" is the wrong, question -- the right
: question is "can it easily", and that question will soon lead you to the
: correct answer: use the right tool for the job.
Of course. The Turing identity argument is an intriguing philosophical
point, but has little practical value.
--
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| "The hills were burning, and the wind was raging; and the
clock struck midnight in the Garden of Allah."
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jan 1999 22:06:15 GMT
From: eric@nafex.comi (Eric Smith)
Subject: perl for win32 development
Message-Id: <slrn79veun.2m2.eric@eric.nafex.com>
Hello Perl
I am currently developing a commericial pallet tracking logistics
application. It is my wish to port this project to Perl - more likely at
some future stage than now.
The question: How suitable is perl as an environment for developing major
end-user commercial applications for the win32 platform? Is the new JPL
the front-end and is the technology of supplying compiled code (for obvious
reasons in a commercial app.) sufficiently refined?
In a line: Is it feasible to dump Delphi, VB, Clarion etc for perl either
now or will it be at some time in the near future?
Is it possible to distribute perl code in compiled binary form at this
stage?
TIA
--
Eric Smith (eric@nafex.com)
Tel 0027 82 780 7888 (vodacom)
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Well, after 6 months, here's the answer to the quiz: what do we do about
comp.lang.perl.moderated. Answer: nothing.
]From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
]Date: 21 Sep 1998 19:53:43 -0700
]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
]
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 4662
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