[10862] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 4463 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Dec 19 20:07:18 1998
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 98 17:00:16 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 19 Dec 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 4463
Today's topics:
Re: $&, $', and $` and parens.... (Ilya Zakharevich)
Re: $&, $', and $` and parens.... (Ilya Zakharevich)
Re: $&, $', and $` and parens.... (Ronald J Kimball)
Re: 'pipe' an 8-bit file (Victor B Wagner)
Re: bless Perl objects or references (Damian Conway)
Error when trying to use flock() example from perlfaq5 <off-duty@entheosengineering.com>
Re: Execute multi commands in one line (Victor B Wagner)
Re: Favourite Editor for NT Perl (Victor B Wagner)
Re: Formatting Numbers (Victor B Wagner)
Re: Parsing string from browser input <richgrise@entheosengineering.com>
Perl Training - Worth it? <chobbs@silvervalley.k12.ca.us>
Re: previous page, perl vs asp (Victor B Wagner)
Re: replacing text with a variable <due@murray.fordham.edu>
Re: Why Is Perl not a Language? (Victor B Wagner)
Re: Why Is Perl not a Language? (Victor B Wagner)
Re: Why Is Perl not a Language? (Victor B Wagner)
Re: Why Is Perl not a Language? haakon.alstadheim@sds.no
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Dec 1998 23:05:08 GMT
From: ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich)
Subject: Re: $&, $', and $` and parens....
Message-Id: <75hbf4$p0p$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Ronald J Kimball
<rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu>],
who wrote in article <1dka9zt.9ghuyb1qex0baN@bay1-457.quincy.ziplink.net>:
> Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
>
> > Depends. As I wrote in another message, nongreedy has a potential to
> > be up to 3x quickier than greedy - in newer Perls only.
>
> And as I wrote in response to that message, please explain how the regex
> engine has been changed to make non-greedy quantifiers more efficient.
???? What do you mean?
It was optimized. If you want more details, inspect the patch (on p5p
archive, approx 3-4 days before my first posting on this topic).
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: 19 Dec 1998 23:13:14 GMT
From: ilya@math.ohio-state.edu (Ilya Zakharevich)
Subject: Re: $&, $', and $` and parens....
Message-Id: <75hbua$p9j$1@mathserv.mps.ohio-state.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Bart Lateur
<bart.lateur@skynet.be>],
who wrote in article <367d93e3.1657801@news.skynet.be>:
> Lary Rosler wrote:
>
> >My conclusions (based on these limited tests):
>
> >2. Using the special variables has a *small* negative impact on
> >performance when they are not used.
>
> That isn't clear. The mere existence of these variables in the total
> source, has a small negative impact in the regex code, even where they
> aren't used.
>
> Well, the results are pretty much what *I* would have expected.
>
> They said it gave SOME loss of speed, for every regex. It does.
To stop this silly nonsense: $` and friends induce *copying of the
string*. This is linear in the length of the string, with a small
constant.
If the REx is linear in the length of the string with a *big*
constant, or superlinear, then the overhead of copying will be
negligible indeed. However, many applications of REx are sublinear,
as scalar /./g (or have a very small constant), and here the overhead
can easily reach 100x *in real-life applications*.
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:44:13 -0500
From: rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball)
Subject: Re: $&, $', and $` and parens....
Message-Id: <1dkar09.11f9hhrgf9toeN@bay1-293.quincy.ziplink.net>
Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to Ronald J Kimball
> <rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu>],
> who wrote in article <1dka9zt.9ghuyb1qex0baN@bay1-457.quincy.ziplink.net>:
> > Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Depends. As I wrote in another message, nongreedy has a potential to
> > > be up to 3x quickier than greedy - in newer Perls only.
> >
> > And as I wrote in response to that message, please explain how the regex
> > engine has been changed to make non-greedy quantifiers more efficient.
>
> ???? What do you mean?
>
> It was optimized. If you want more details, inspect the patch (on p5p
> archive, approx 3-4 days before my first posting on this topic).
Here's what I mean...
My understanding of '(.*?)a' is that it is slow because in every
iteration, the regex engine has to step of the capturing parentheses,
and then back in if the next character is not 'a'. This exiting and
entering of the capturing parentheses is expensive, and so '(.*?)' is
inefficient.
I imagine that the exiting and entering could be made inexpensive fairly
easily. That would be enough to make '(.*?)a' as efficient as
'([^a]*)a'. But I'm curious how '(.*?)a' could be made _more_ efficient
than '([^a]*)a'. What does the newly updated regex engine do
differently in the two cases that makes the non-greedy versoion more
efficient?
I guess I'll go look at the patch.
--
_ / ' _ / - aka - rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu
( /)//)//)(//)/( Ronald J Kimball chipmunk@m-net.arbornet.org
/ http://www.ziplink.net/~rjk/
"It's funny 'cause it's true ... and vice versa."
------------------------------
Date: 17 Dec 1998 08:44:50 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: 'pipe' an 8-bit file
Message-Id: <75aga2$9st$2@zware.space.ru>
Earl Childers (childers@acns.fsu.edu) wrote:
: I asked around locally about the following:
: Using PERL, how can I 'pipe' a binary (8-bit) file to standard out?
: ********
: Here's the answer I got:
: open(FILE, "location/of/file");
: while($line = <FILE>) {
: print $line;
: }
: The only thing you would change in that example is the location of the file
: (leave in the " ").
: **********
: I'd like to know if that's how I'd do it with a plain text file and is it
: also a good way to do it for a
: binary (8-bit) file that may not have any end-of-line (CRLF) markers?
Basically yes. Don't forget to set binmode on both files if you are
running on system where EOL is CRLF (Win32, DOS, VMS).
But, if your file is really large and your system is very
memory-stressed, you can try to use read/write (or even sysread/syswrite
instead of <>/print.
: Thanks.
: --Earl
--
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: 19 Dec 98 22:34:51 GMT
From: damian@molly.cs.monash.edu.au (Damian Conway)
Subject: Re: bless Perl objects or references
Message-Id: <damian.914106891@molly.cs.monash.edu.au>
Rakesh Puthalath <rakesh_puthalath@hotmail.com> writes:
>Can someone explain this topic, and the code following it . This
>clipping is from perlobj man page.
>From Chapter 2 of "Object Oriented Perl" (Manning Publications, due out
next summer):
-----------cut-----------cut-----------cut-----------cut-----------cut----------
Rule 3: To create an object, bless a referent
=============================================
Unlike other object-oriented languages, Perl doesn't require that
an object be a special kind of record-like data structure. In fact,
you can use any existing type of Perl variable -- a scalar, an
array, a hash, etc. -- as an object in Perl.
Hence, the issue isn't so much how to create the object (you create
them exactly like any other Perl variable), but rather how to tell
Perl that such an object belongs to a particular class. That brings
us to that one extra built-in Perl function you need to know about.
It's called "bless", and its only job is to mark a variable as
belonging to a particular class.
The bless function takes two argument: a reference to the object to
be marked, and a string containing the name of the class that the
object to be flagged as belonging to. For example, suppose that
the scalar variable $nextbug actually stores a reference to an
anonymous hash:
$nextbug = {
'_id' => "00001",
'_type' => "fatal",
'_descr' => "application does not compile",
};
Then to make that anonymous hash into an object of class Bug we
write:
bless($nextbug, 'Bug');
And that's it! The anonymous array referred to by $nextbug is now
marked as being an object of class Bug.
Note that the variable $nextbug itself hasn't been altered in any
way; only the nameless hash it refers to has been marked. Figure
2.1 illustrates where the new class membership flag is set.
You can check that the blessing succeeded by applying the inbuilt
ref function to $nextbug. Normally when ref is applied to a
reference, it returns the type of that reference. Hence, before
$nextbug was blessed, ref($nextbug) would have returned the string
'HASH'.
Once an object is blessed, ref returns the name of its class
instead. So after the blessing, ref($nextbug) will return 'Bug'. Of
course, the object itself still is a hash, but now it's a hash that
belongs to the Bug class.
Figure 2.1
==========
$nextbug
+-----------+
| |
| O |
| | |
+-----|-----+
|
|
| +--------------------------------------------+
| | |
| | _id => "00001" |
+--------->| _type => "fatal" |
| _descr => "application does not compile" |
| |
+--------------------------------------------+
i) Before bless($nextbug, 'Bug');
==================================================================
$nextbug
+-----------+
| |
| O |
| | | +-----+
+-----|-----+ | Bug |
| +-----+
| |
| +-----+--------------------------------------+
| | |
| | _id => "00001" |
+--------->| _type => "fatal" |
| _descr => "application does not compile" |
| |
+--------------------------------------------+
ii) After bless($nextbug, 'Bug');
-----------cut-----------cut-----------cut-----------cut-----------cut----------
Hope this helps,
Damian
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 17:01:52 -0600
From: Rich Grise <off-duty@entheosengineering.com>
Subject: Error when trying to use flock() example from perlfaq5
Message-Id: <367C3060.7476@entheosengineering.com>
Hi. I'm hacking Matt's wwwboard script, and thought file
locking might be a good idea (somebody once told me that
Matt's scripts are not good examples of Perl coding - as
I learn more, bit by bit {no pun intended, but it is kinda
cute!} I'm seeing that that's true)
So I lifted this snippet right out of perlfaq5:
use Fcntl qw(:flock);
sysopen(FH, "numfile", O_RDWR|O_CREAT, 0644)
or die "can't open numfile: $!";
flock(FH, 2)
or die "can't flock numfile: $!";
$num = <FH> || 0;
seek(FH, 0, 0)
or die "can't rewind numfile: $!";
truncate(FH, 0)
or die "can't truncate numfile: $!";
(print FH $num+1, "\n")
or die "can't write numfile: $!";
# DO NOT UNLOCK THIS UNTIL YOU CLOSE
close FH
or die "can't close numfile: $!";
supposedly to lock, for updating, the "message number"
file (only the file name is different, for my particular
application) and I get the following error message in my
error_log:
can't truncate numfile: Permission denied at
/mnt/web/guide/entheosengineering/SB/cgibin/secureboard.cgi
line 316, <FH> chunk 1.
[Fri Dec 18 16:42:28 1998] access to
/mnt/web/guide/entheosengineering/SB/cgibin/secureboard.cgi
failed for localhost, reason: Premature end of script headers
Of course the premature end is because of the error on line 316.
But what have I missed, such that the truncate fails?
Permission of data.txt (my numfile) is 666, and it was
working before, when I left Matt's method the way it was,
which I realized could cause a collision because of
the amount of time between getting the number and writing
the incremented number.
But howcome the code snippet right out of the faq fails?
perl, version 5.004_03
Slackware Linux 3.3.0, kernel 2.0.30,
Server version Apache/1.2.0.
TIA :)
--
Rich Grise
off-duty@entheosengineering.com
(No need to putz around with my e-mail - I have a "DELETE" button!)
------------------------------
Date: 16 Dec 1998 12:54:34 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: Execute multi commands in one line
Message-Id: <758aia$g0l$1@zware.space.ru>
mbrich@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: I sure my subject wasn't clear but here is goes: I have the following command
: that I wish to execute in a perl script.
: cvs status | $ grep 'Status:' | grep -v 'Up-to-date' | awk '{print $2}'
: Do I have to break this up into indivdual actions, or is there a way to do
: this using exec() or system().
: I have tried with my limited knowledge but perls seems to stop after the first
: executable statement(i.e. cvs status).
First, you should have no problem doing
system " cvs status | grep 'Status:' | grep -v 'Up-to-date' | awk '{print $2}'"
Second, it is very simular to the question posted to comp.lang.tcl
every week or so. Right answer (you know, any question have at least
two answers - right one and exact one) is:
you don't need run grep or awk or sed from perl(or tcl). You can do the same
things with perl builtin operators and it would be much faster (although
a bit longer code)
open F,"cvs status|";
while (<F>) {
if (/Status:/&&!/Up-to-date/) {
print (split /\s+/)[1];
}
}
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: 17 Dec 1998 08:46:53 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: Favourite Editor for NT Perl
Message-Id: <75agdt$9st$3@zware.space.ru>
Kirby James (kirby@jamesk.REMOVE.freeserve.co.uk) wrote:
: After using Notepad for some time I've decided to treat myself....
: ... Anyone like to suggest the 'best' editor for Perl under Windows NT.
: I've tried MultiEdit which 'understands' Perl out-of-the box, takes you
: to the lines with errors (if you make any), and shows you programme
: output.
: I've also tried CodeWright - this uses Perl as a macro language - but
: doesn't seem to 'understand' Perl without some configuration.
: Any recommendations from experienced users?
: Thanks
vi(m) or emacs, depending on personal preferences. Why should you use on NT
something else then on Unix? Especially if you use perl (and probably
lot of other useful things).
: Kirby
--
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: 16 Dec 1998 09:57:55 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: Formatting Numbers
Message-Id: <758073$308$1@zware.space.ru>
Emmett McLean (emclean@slip.net) wrote:
: In article <756sjn$edn@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
: Scott Phillips <scott@reflector.net> wrote:
: >Lets say I have:
: >
: >$amount = "100230.00";
: >
: >how can I format it so that it places a "," after every third digit to the
: >left of the decimal point.....so it would like this:
: >
: >100,230.00
: >
: >Thanks, its been stumping me.
: >-Scott
: >
: >
: The Perl guru's are going to be really annoyed!!!
Yes, it doesn't look like perlish way of doing things.
It is much simplier to play a bit with string representation.
Unfortunately perl regexp don't like to parse string right to left,
so some hack is neccesary. I've quickly invented following hack:
1. Make string left of dot 3n+2 digits long
2. Replace each tri-digit string with 2 digits,1 digit
3. Kill leading zeros
$tmp = sprintf("%014.2f",$amount);
$tmp =~ s/(\d{2})(\d)/$1,$2/g;
$tmp =~ s/^[0,]+//;
print $tmp
: I don't have the time to translate the C to Perl
: but it can be translated and does what you want.
: Emmett
: char *ftoaComma(double d) {
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 18:14:22 +0000
From: Rich Grise <richgrise@entheosengineering.com>
To: nguyen.van@imvi.bls.com
Subject: Re: Parsing string from browser input
Message-Id: <367BECFE.3481DEAE@entheosengineering.com>
nguyen.van@imvi.bls.com wrote:
>
> [...]
> $view_all = $query->param('see'); where "see" is a Name variable in HTML
>
> _____________________________________________________________________-
>
> I'm using POST method. I think that the code just stopped right here.
> Do you have any idea?
>
> Thanks
> Van
>
If what we're seeing above is your actual code, your error is in this
line:
$view_all = $query->param('see'); where "see" is a Name variable in HTML
You might want to use a comment thingie, like this:
$view_all = $query->param('see'); # where "see" is a Name variable in
HTML
^
That would definitely stop your script in its tracks! Check your error
log.
Good Luck!
--
Rich Grise
richgrise@entheosengineering.com
(No need to futz with my e-mail: I have a "delete" button!)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 1998 15:35:10 -0800
From: Chris Hobbs <chobbs@silvervalley.k12.ca.us>
Subject: Perl Training - Worth it?
Message-Id: <367C382E.8F3563A8@silvervalley.k12.ca.us>
Greetings,
I've recently received a flyer from a company called American Research
Group offering two different two-day Perl training courses - one basic,
one advanced with a CGI element.
I've been playing around with Perl for about a month or so, and have
already done some useful things with it. I'm learning my way around the
docs, and improving in my skills daily. Thus I'm really only considering
the advanced course.
So my question is, "Has anyone attended these courses?" It's $1095 for
each, and while I could get the boss to pay for it, I could also buy the
enrite zoo of O'Reilly books and save my employer several hundred
dollars.
Opinions would be greatly appreciated!
--
Chris Hobbs chobbs@silvervalley.k12.ca.us|Network Admin | Postmaster
Silver Valley Unified School District |MCP - TCP/IP | J.A.W.P.H.
http://www.silvervalley.k12.ca.us/chobbs |A witty saying proves nothing.
- Voltaire
------------------------------
Date: 17 Dec 1998 08:38:58 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: previous page, perl vs asp
Message-Id: <75afv2$9st$1@zware.space.ru>
Dan Albertsson (dan.albertsson@swipnet.se) wrote:
: I have seen on different shopping websites, written in ASP, that if you
: update a page (for instance your shopping cart) and then press your
: browsers Back button, the browser does not show how the page look like
: before you updated it.
: Is that possible to do with cgi-scripts written in Perl. Because otherwise
: it messes up my shopping application when visitors starts to move back in
: history (goes to previous webpages my cgi-script has produced). Is it
: possible to perhaps instruct the browser not to remember the page that was
: shown before or realy replace it with the new one so you can't go back to
: the previous one.
This have nothing to do with perl, asp and any other language. It is
merely question of http protocol.
You should include line Expires: some date/time in past
in your http response header and browser wouldn't cashe the page.
Really, www server should do it for you seing that you have CGI script.
Read appropriate RFC (2067) if I remember).
: Thanks
: /dan
--
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: 19 Dec 1998 23:20:25 GMT
From: "Allan M. Due" <due@murray.fordham.edu>
Subject: Re: replacing text with a variable
Message-Id: <75hcbp$2je$0@206.165.165.155>
Tad McClellan wrote in message <2m3h57.co3.ln@magna.metronet.com>...
|Allan M. Due (due@murray.fordham.edu) wrote:
|: groans@mailexcite.com wrote in message <75gquq$dh1$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
|: |Hello all,
|: |Lets say I want to change:
|: |/some/text
|: |to
|: |$a/some/text
|: |where $a is any text value.
|: |Could I use the following commmand?
|: |s!/s!$a/s!is;
|: Well, what happened when you tried it? I am not sure why you have the s
there
|: but I am going to believe you that you need it.
| He cannot possibly need it.
Well, he could possibly need it. I was giving him the credit of the doubt
that his example was not literal and he might, in deed, need the s. He didn't
need the i either in his example either so I guess we need to point that out
as well. Or else decide that he might need both.
| The /s option affects only the interpretation of the dot character,
| and his pattern has no dot characters in it...
Yes, I found your description of this in a previous post this week quite lucid
and sensible.
AmD
------------------------------
Date: 18 Dec 1998 10:40:54 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: Why Is Perl not a Language?
Message-Id: <75dbfm$q8a$1@zware.space.ru>
Ronald J Kimball (rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: Actually, I changed my mind. His definition doesn't make sense for
: "interactive interface" either, because "interactive interface" is
: redundant and means the same thing as "interface".
: How could you have a non-interactive interface?? An interface by
: definition involves interaction.
Command-line interface is perfect example of non-interactive interface
- you give some instructions, program performs it and only thing it
returns is success or failure code. Even if it outputs some text
it is not interaction in some sense. And this is that very sense which
makes automation complicated thing.
In short - if program can be used
by
open F,"program some args|";
it is not interactive (but obvoisly have an interface which in this case
is specification of acceptable arguments and output program).
If program requires
IPC::Open2 or Comm to be run from perl script without user intervention,
it is interactive. If it requires X display, it is interactive too
unless you can do the job by launching xvfb and passing command some
arguments. So, netscape is NOT ALWAYS interactive.
e
: --
: _ / ' _ / - aka - rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu
: ( /)//)//)(//)/( Ronald J Kimball chipmunk@m-net.arbornet.org
: / http://www.ziplink.net/~rjk/
: "It's funny 'cause it's true ... and vice versa."
--
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: 16 Dec 1998 10:10:04 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: Why Is Perl not a Language?
Message-Id: <7580ts$308$2@zware.space.ru>
Thomas Brian Holdren (irc_addict@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Dear Guru's,
: Yeah, I'm a perl baby-talker. Bought my first camel book last week. I still
: sometimes use the $_ variable (gasp). I was previously a BASIC programmer (you
: may snicker), and had some shell scripting experience (ksh). My question is:
: Why is perl not a "programming language"?
: For example, why is C or BASIC a "programming language", and perl is just a
: "scripting language". Is it because you don't explicitly compile perl
I see you misunderstand concept of scripting language.
Read J Ousterhout article on scripting
(should be somewhere on www.scripting.com)
Perl is scripting rather than language not becouse you cannot program on
it, but becouse you can script on it.
Scripting is just much more powerful concept than programming.
In programming, when you need to do something with script, you have
to scan it character by character, writing some FSA or LALR parser.
In scripting you just use built-in regexp feature.
Same stands for other tasks.
Programming languages is something which allow you to express
algorithmes on the level of bit shifting and achieve maximum efficience
in expense of thousands lines of code.
Scripting is something which allows you to build useful tools from large
and flexible blocks with few dozens lines of code. Of course you pay
with runtime efficiency, but now high-preformace CPUs are much cheaper
than programmer's time.
Really, BASIC (especially Visual) is scripting language too, according
to Ousterhout, regardless of its creation as programming language,
becouse modern versions of basic (starting with GW, I think) have rich
feature set, which can be used to build short programs from large
blocks. But its origin as general purpose programming language makes
scripting with it more difficult and ressembling traditional programming
than scripting with Perl or Tcl
: But, everything I could do in BASIC, I can do in perl (albeit a lot quicker in
: perl). Sting manipulation, the reading in of files into memory, etc. So if
: someone could please explain the difference between a "programming language"
: and a "scripting language", I would surely appreciate it.
: Regards,
: ps. Why is the perl mascot a camel? (Versatility?)
Becouse it looks ugly from first glance, but is very robust.
--
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: 16 Dec 1998 10:13:31 GMT
From: vitus@brass.fe.msk.ru (Victor B Wagner)
Subject: Re: Why Is Perl not a Language?
Message-Id: <75814b$308$3@zware.space.ru>
Ronald J Kimball (rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu) wrote:
: Bart Lateur <bart.lateur@skynet.be> wrote:
: > *My* Perl "programs" usually don't have a user interface. Just a command
: > line. Most of them serve to process/convert files. Compare that to, say,
: > a spreadsheet program.
: Huh? If your program doesn't have a user interface, how do you run it?
: How does it know which files to process/convert?
: "User Interface" by no means implies that a program has to
: *continuously* accept input from the user.
If program is spawned by another process, which have supplied it command
line argument, and user doesn't even know that something happens in
background, can you call it USER interface? I'll call it
invocation interface, which might well serve as user one or
inter-process one. User interface is something that requires human
intervention, although there always is Expect.
ftp program has user interface, but wget hasn't.
: --
: _ / ' _ / - aka - rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu
: ( /)//)//)(//)/( Ronald J Kimball chipmunk@m-net.arbornet.org
: / http://www.ziplink.net/~rjk/
: "It's funny 'cause it's true ... and vice versa."
--
--------------------------------------------------
Victor Wagner vitus@ice.ru
Programmer Office:7-(095)-964-0380
Institute for Commerce Home: 7-(095)-135-46-61
Engineering http://www.ice.ru/~vitus
------------------------------
Date: 18 Dec 1998 17:22:44 +0100
From: haakon.alstadheim@sds.no
Subject: Re: Why Is Perl not a Language?
Message-Id: <ubtl1773f.fsf@sds.no>
rjk@linguist.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball) writes:
> John Moreno <phenix@interpath.com> wrote:
[...]
> Actually, I changed my mind. His definition doesn't make sense for
> "interactive interface" either, because "interactive interface" is
> redundant and means the same thing as "interface".
>
> How could you have a non-interactive interface?? An interface by
> definition involves interaction.
I suppose the inteded meaning of inteactive is that some kind of
interaction with a human (or a program simulating human input) is
involved. Hence, a better term than "interactive interface" might
be human-computer interface, or human interface for short. This
would be (part of) the phenomenon studied in the science called
Human Computer Interaction, I guess.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Dec 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Dec 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Well, after 6 months, here's the answer to the quiz: what do we do about
comp.lang.perl.moderated. Answer: nothing.
]From: Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu>
]Date: 21 Sep 1998 19:53:43 -0700
]Subject: comp.lang.perl.moderated available via e-mail
]
]It is possible to subscribe to comp.lang.perl.moderated as a mailing list.
]To do so, send mail to majordomo@eyrie.org with "subscribe clpm" in the
]body. Majordomo will then send you instructions on how to confirm your
]subscription. This is provided as a general service for those people who
]cannot receive the newsgroup for whatever reason or who just prefer to
]receive messages via e-mail.
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
article to perl-users@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
appeared last in the newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send
perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 4463
**************************************
