[10192] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3786 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Sep 22 13:07:15 1998
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 98 10:01:30 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 22 Sep 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3786
Today's topics:
Re: measure memory usage dwiesel@my-dejanews.com
Re: measure memory usage (David Cantrell)
Re: Module download problem <barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses <borg@imaginary.com>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses bjohnsto_usa_net@my-dejanews.com
Re: Perl for Win32 Problems <ez062634@mailbox.ucdavis.edu>
Re: Question about regex across multiple lines <rapruitt@inetconn.net>
Re: script: scriptMangle! (Craig Berry)
Shell/System scripts <webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.cc.fl.us>
Re: trying to use print<<END; with CGI.pm <barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Re: What happened to perl.moderated? (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Re: What happened to perl.moderated? (Doran L. Barton)
Re: What happened to perl.moderated? (Lloyd Zusman)
Re: What happened to perl.moderated? <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Re: where is Date::Parse? <barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:19:50 GMT
From: dwiesel@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: measure memory usage
Message-Id: <6u8f6m$tdm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Hi again,
I forgot to say that I'm using Linx.
> First, take a complete snapshot of your computer's memory whilst perl
> is NOT running. This is easiest if you stop all other programs as
> well. Then, start your perl program, pause it, and take another
> snapshot of your computer's memory.
>
> Compare the two snapshots and count the number of bytes which have
> changed. This will give you an approximate amount of RAM used by the
> program.
How do I pause a perl program? Is there not any program that I can use to
measure?
> Alternatively, use top.
top? I don't follow you.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:18:05 GMT
From: NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell)
Subject: Re: measure memory usage
Message-Id: <360bcd68.83701746@thunder>
On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 15:19:50 GMT,
dwiesel@my-dejanews.com enlightened us thusly:
>> First, take a complete snapshot of your computer's memory whilst perl
>> is NOT running. This is easiest if you stop all other programs as
>> well. Then, start your perl program, pause it, and take another
>> snapshot of your computer's memory.
... [snip] ...
>
>How do I pause a perl program?
Depends on the program. If it is a console application, CTRL-S will
probably do the trick.
--
David Cantrell, part-time NT/java/SQL techie
full-time chef/musician/homebrewer
http://www.ThePentagon.com/NukeEmUp
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:18:36 -0500
From: Dave Barnett <barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Subject: Re: Module download problem
Message-Id: <3606522C.A5F78FA7@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
nguyen.van@imvi.bls.com wrote:
<snip>
> PERL_DL_NONLAZY=1 /usr/bin/perl -I./blib/arch -I./blib/lib
> -I/opt/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.00404 -I/opt/lib/perl5 -e 'use Test::Harness
> qw(&runtests $verbose); $verbose=0; runtests @ARGV;' t/*.t
> t/getdate...........WARNING: Date::GetDate requires Date::Parse for years >=
> 2000 at blib/lib/Date/GetDate.pm line 10. Can't locate Date/Parse.pm in @INC
Just guessing here, but it appears that you don't have the Date::Parse
module installed (or at least not installed in a directory that is in
your @INC path -- see below for your @INC path).
perl -MDate::Parse -e 'print "$Date::Parse::VERSION\n"';
should spit out the version of the Date::Parse module you're using, or
tell you it cannot find it. I bet it can't find it.
If it is installed, but not in one of the following, do (assuming
PERL5LIB is not already set!):
setenv PERL5LIB /path/to/your/personal/libraries
> (@INC contains: ./blib/arch ./blib/lib /opt/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.00404
> /opt/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.00404 /opt/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.00404
> /opt/lib/perl5 /opt/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.00404
> /opt/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.00404 /opt/lib/perl5
> /opt/lib/perl5/site_perl/sun4-solaris /opt/lib/perl5/site_perl/sun4-solaris
> /opt/lib/perl5/site_perl . /opt/lib/perl5/sun4-solaris/5.00404 /opt/lib/perl5
> /opt/lib/perl5/site_perl/sun4-solaris /opt/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at
> blib/lib/Date/GetDate.pm line 16. dubious Test returned status 2 (wstat 512,
> 0x200) DIED. FAILED test 109 Failed 1/109 tests, 99.08% okay Failed Test
<snip>
HTH.
Cheers,
Dave
--
Dave Barnett Software Support Engineer (281) 596-1434
If work is so terrific, how come they have to pay you to do it?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:17:32 -0400
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <3607CD9C.78D63477@min.net>
George Reese wrote:
>
> In comp.lang.java.programmer John Porter <jdporter@min.net> wrote:
> : My point is essentially the same; intrinsic data types are not
> : full-fledged classes. Working with them is not done in an OO style,
> : unlike in Smalltalk.
>
> Primitives are not in any way contrary to the OO paradigm.
Not categorically true; only true if the syntax for manipulating
primitives is indistinguishable from normal object manipulation.
If I can't say
float f = 5.5;
int n = f->floor();
then I can't program in a fully OO style.
If I can't say
class MyInt : public int { ...
then the language is NOT OO at the level of instrinic data types.
Needless to say, Java and Python are not "OO-complete" in this respect.
> That there
> be no primitives in an OO environment is a silly construct of
> misguided Smalltalk developers,
You don't know Smalltalk, obviously.
Primitives exist, and they are full-fledged classes.
And there are no good reasons why other languages couldn't
have had this useful feature too.
> OO is partially about the encapsulation of data, not the
> elimination of it.
Sure; but I don't recall anyone suggesting otherwise...
--
John "Many Jars" Porter
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:24:19 -0400
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <3607CF33.2BE9CE72@min.net>
George Reese wrote:
>
>[insults snipped]
> I have never argued anything of the sort of "Perl is so far
> beneath Python". You just made that up.
Not so. All of your earlier posts in this thread consisted of
slamming Perl wrt Python or Java on one or more of the following points:
. readability
. maintainability
. learnability
. object-orientedness
Not until recently have you moderated your vitriol, to the point of
allowing that some folks might prefer Perl, for whatever personal
reasons.
--
John "Many Jars" Porter
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:38:16 -0400
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <3607D278.7D0C35B5@min.net>
George Reese wrote:
>
> Your wonderfully misinterpret these quotes and you leave out the
> Amazon ranking. I believe it gets 4 out of 5 stars?
Actually, the Amazon ranking is almost totally meaningless,
for the simple reason that readers are far more likely to review
a book they liked than one they didn't.
--
John "Many Jars" Porter
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:37:24 GMT
From: George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <8nQN1.1386$Ge.4290664@ptah.visi.com>
In comp.lang.java.programmer John Porter <jdporter@min.net> wrote:
: George Reese wrote:
:>
:>[insults snipped]
:> I have never argued anything of the sort of "Perl is so far
:> beneath Python". You just made that up.
: Not so. All of your earlier posts in this thread consisted of
: slamming Perl wrt Python or Java on one or more of the following points:
: . readability
: . maintainability
: . learnability
: . object-orientedness
: Not until recently have you moderated your vitriol, to the point of
: allowing that some folks might prefer Perl, for whatever personal
: reasons.
I am not modifying my views in any way, shape, or form. You are right
that I slammed perl for the above qualities. Those have nothing to do
with personal programming habits, but instead are all features of
large scale application development.
--
George Reese (borg@imaginary.com) http://www.imaginary.com/~borg
PGP Key: http://www.imaginary.com/servlet/Finger?user=borg&verbose=yes
"Keep Ted Turner and his goddamned Crayolas away from my movie."
-Orson Welles
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:41:59 GMT
From: bjohnsto_usa_net@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <6u8k0n$2pr$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <VYBN1.1255$Ge.3888613@ptah.visi.com>,
George Reese <borg@imaginary.com> wrote:
>
> :>That there
> :>be no primitives in an OO environment is a silly construct of
> :>misguided Smalltalk developers, not of anyone who is familiar with
> :>what OO is at heart
>
> : Did you just say that smalltalk developers are not familiar with what OO
> : is at heart? Next thing your going to tell me is that Wruth dosn't
> : understand structured programing.
I know Smalltalk developers who have no idea of what is going on inside their
systems and just use copy paste to satisfy user requirements and build
extremely useful systems very quickly.
I asked one who had built many succesful systems will this do a deep or
shallow copy? IE: is ':=' like the constructs:
Java: new_v = old_v;
VBA: SET new_v = old_v
or is it like:
Java: new_v = old_v.clone();
VBA: new_v = old_v
After 10 minutes of explaination of what I meant I got 'I don't know, I just
do stuff and it works'. In fact smalltalk := is like = in Java and SET in
VB, shallow.
Others are facinated by the technical structure of the system they use and
understand every detail.
>
> An OO system is identified by the following characteristics:
> inheritance, data encapsulation, polymorphism, and data abstraction.
>
> Whether a given programming languages has primitives or not is not
> related to any of these concepts.
>
> George Reese (borg@imaginary.com) http://www.imaginary.com/~borg
I personally would say primatives are the features provided by the system, to
say that any system had no primatives would be to say that system did nothing.
So you are making a mistake thinking that Smalltalk developers could not mean
that by 'primative'.
In Smalltalk all data is on a heap (at least conceptually) and all types can
be subclassed.
In Java some data is on the stack. This data can not, for instance, be
modified by sub routines by, for instance passing a reference to it.
I notice that Perl allows developers to take a reference to any variable.
This implies to me that all perl data is on some kind of heap. I think perl
has some kind of map from names to data.
In this repect I would say that Java has special stack based types.
All builtin types in Smalltalk have a syntax and semantics which could be
duplicated by a user defined class.
By these two definitions smalltalk developers who say 'Smalltalk has no
primatives' are making a valid and interesting point.
These are important distinctions between Smalltalk and Java. I am not aware
that either approach is superior.
Brendan Johnston
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 08:16:46 -0700
From: Michael Nguyen <ez062634@mailbox.ucdavis.edu>
To: Mickey Frklic <mod@vei.net>
Subject: Re: Perl for Win32 Problems
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980922081559.11069D-100000@catbert.ucdavis.edu>
On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Mickey Frklic wrote:
> Hello Perl World,
>
> My name is Mickey and I am planning on doing some CGI routines with Perl
>
> in the near future. I am using Windows 98 and have downloaded Perl for
> Win32
> from Activesite. I am having a couple problems with some of the
> functions that
> I can not find help for on thier web site.
>
> When i create an associated array such as
>
> %weekdays = (
> '1', 'Monday',
> '2', 'Tuesday',
> '3', 'Wednesday',
> '4', 'Thursday',
> '5', 'Friday',
> );
>
> and try to use the keys or values function:
>
> foreach $key ( keys(%weekday)) {print "$key";}
> print "\n";
> foreach $value ( values(%weekday)) {print "$value;}
Just change (%weekday) to %weekdays and you should be fine
>
> --
> Mickey Frklic / Programmer
> --------------------------------------
> ICQ: 6837268 - AIM: AOHell MoD
> Web Page: http://users.vei.net/mod
> --------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:02:30 -0400
From: "Andy" <rapruitt@inetconn.net>
Subject: Re: Question about regex across multiple lines
Message-Id: <6u8i12$lu$1@news.dn.net>
>So my program would do a "m/<(\d)>/" . If it was successful, it would do
>the math on the number it would find, and do a
>"s/<(\d)>/\s+\d+\s+/<$1> $newvalue /".
I think that this is what you want:
$t = 0;
s!^<(\d+)>[\s\n\t\r]+(\d+)! $t += $2 + $1; '<' . $1 . '>' . ' ' . $t !meg;
It forces the <\d> to be at the start of a new line; you can allow for
leading spaces if you want to.
>This worked until I found out that the input file could also look like:
>
><3>
> 1 fred
>barney
><5> 2 wilma
>betty
------------------------------
Date: 22 Sep 1998 06:04:07 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: script: scriptMangle!
Message-Id: <6u7ekn$2j6$1@marina.cinenet.net>
Paul David Fardy (pdf@morgan.ucs.mun.ca) wrote:
: Yes, you are missing something. There is a moral dimension to choosing
: _not_ to apply moral values to a decision.
Utterly agreed. My problem is, I still have had no success in my numerous
attempts to understand how *any aspect* of the free vs. proprietary, open-
source vs. hidden-source decision can be considered to have a moral
dimension. Please, I am not being intentionally obtuse, nor devil's
advocating, nor engaging in any other form of rhetorical trickery -- I
*really* *honestly* don't see how morality and the free software decision
connect.
If anyone can enlighten me, I'd be very appreciative! Several people whom
I generally respect seem to feel strongly that there is in fact a moral
dimension to this, but for whatever reason, I've not yet succeeded in
coaxing one of them into explaining him/herself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| "Ripple in still water, when there is no pebble tossed,
nor wind to blow..."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 12:23:41 -0400
From: "Bill Jones, FCCJ Webmaster" <webmaster@fccjmail.fccj.cc.fl.us>
Subject: Shell/System scripts
Message-Id: <3607CF0D.F4513FF3@fccjmail.fccj.cc.fl.us>
Hi all :]
I have been working on a perl script that writes shell scripts.
I am having trouble getting the output to look like:
flexanlg -F -n www.fccj.org -x -i \
access.22Sep-12AM -o \
Reports/Report.22Sep-12AM.html -c \
hnrfeuok -t s5m5h10u10a20r10x10 -l c100h500 -p ctl 2>&1
As you may see, outputting a '\' is not working as expected.
I tried to simply execute the above as a system() perl cmd, but
it doesn't like the -o -c parameters.
So, today I started on writing a perl script that writes shell
scripts. So far I have (shortened for brevity):
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
use diagnostics;
use POSIX;
use IO;
# Command to execute:
my $command = 'flexanlg';
my $host = 'www.fccj.org';
# Get the source file:
my $source = `ls access.*AM`;
my $target = $source;
# Build target file:
$target =~ /access/;
$target = 'Reports/Report' . $' . '.html';
# Create Shell Script:
my $file = "lganalyz.sh";
my $fh = new IO::File $file, O_WRONLY|O_TRUNC, 0755;
# Create shell script...
if (defined $fh) {
print $fh "$command -F -n $host -x -i \\";
print $fh "\n$source -o \\";
print $fh "\n$target -c \\";
print $fh "\nhnrfeuok -t s5m5h10 -l c1h5 -p ctl 2>\&1\n";
undef $fh;
} else { print "Oops! Betcha that hurt $!"; }
1; # Exit Script...
But the trick to creating an '\' in the correct spot has
eluded me ... :(
Any pointers, insight, or a simple "It can't be done."
would be appreciated :]
-Sneex-
__________________________________________________________________
Bill Jones FCCJ Webmaster | http://www.fccj.org/cgi/mail?webmaster
__________________________________________________________________
We are the CLPM... Lower your standards and surrender your code...
We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to
our own... Your thoughts will adapt to service us...
...Resistance is futile...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:24:12 -0500
From: Dave Barnett <barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Subject: Re: trying to use print<<END; with CGI.pm
Message-Id: <3606537C.E243060B@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Harold Bamford wrote:
>
<snip>
> Well, it works OK for me. However, since 'END' has special
> significance to Perl, you might want to try a different token:
>
Well, of course, the following won't work.....
> #!perl -w
> use strict;
>
> print<<"EOF";
>
> Al,
> What is it doing? Just saying that
> it is not working _without_ a code
> sample doesn't help us troubleshoot
> the problem.
>
> Brent
>
> END
^^^^^^^^
s/END/EOF/;
> --
> -- Harold Bamford
> mailto:hbamford@lucent.com
> (630)713-1351
Cheers,
Dave
--
Dave Barnett Software Support Engineer (281) 596-1434
Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish,
and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Sep 1998 11:39:28 -0400
From: mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Subject: Re: What happened to perl.moderated?
Message-Id: <6u8gbg$edu$1@monet.op.net>
In article <6u829e$b6n$1@en1.engelschall.com>,
Steffen Beyer <sb@engelschall.com> wrote:
>I was away from mail and news for 3 months; what happened to the RFV
>for comp.lang.perl.moderated?
The group passed, and was created in July. It has carried 489
articles so far.
------------------------------
Date: 22 Sep 1998 10:01:17 -0600
From: fozz@xmission.xmission.com (Doran L. Barton)
Subject: Re: What happened to perl.moderated?
Message-Id: <6u8hkd$hqe$1@xmission.xmission.com>
sb@engelschall.com (Steffen Beyer) writes:
>I was away from mail and news for 3 months; what happened to the RFV
>for comp.lang.perl.moderated?
comp.lang.perl.misc is moderated now- to an extent. So an additional
.moderated newsgroup really isn't necessary.
-=Fozz
--
Doran L. Barton = fozz@xmission.com && http://www.xmission.com/~fozz/;
"Where do you want Microsoft to go today?" --Ron Barry <ronb@cc.usu.edu>
"This may seem a bit weird, but that's okay, because it is weird."
-- Larry Wall <lwall@sems.com> in the Perl v5 man page
------------------------------
Date: 22 Sep 1998 16:09:20 GMT
From: ljz@asfast.com (Lloyd Zusman)
Subject: Re: What happened to perl.moderated?
Message-Id: <slrn70firf.jn2.ljz@sunspot.tiac.net>
On 22 Sep 1998 10:01:17 -0600, Doran L. Barton <fozz@xmission.xmission.com> wrote:
> sb@engelschall.com (Steffen Beyer) writes:
>
> >I was away from mail and news for 3 months; what happened to the RFV
> >for comp.lang.perl.moderated?
>
> comp.lang.perl.misc is moderated now- to an extent. So an additional
> .moderated newsgroup really isn't necessary.
Of course, it's a moot point whether or not it's necessary to create
the c.l.p.moderated newsgroup, given that it already exists and has
been in use for a couple months already.
--
Lloyd Zusman
ljz@asfast.com
God bless you.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 16:40:33 GMT
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Subject: Re: What happened to perl.moderated?
Message-Id: <8c1zp49k43.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "Doran" == Doran L Barton <fozz@xmission.xmission.com> writes:
Doran> sb@engelschall.com (Steffen Beyer) writes:
>> I was away from mail and news for 3 months; what happened to the RFV
>> for comp.lang.perl.moderated?
Doran> comp.lang.perl.misc is moderated now- to an extent. So an additional
Doran> .moderated newsgroup really isn't necessary.
Well, you got me on this one. In what way is comp.lang.perl.misc
"moderated"? Certainly not in any way I recognize as moderated. :)
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 1998 08:22:32 -0500
From: Dave Barnett <barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
Subject: Re: where is Date::Parse?
Message-Id: <36065318.D6E30832@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com>
nguyen.van@imvi.bls.com wrote:
>
> Hi guys,
>
> I couldn't find Date::Parse. Do you know where it is located?
>
> Thanks
> Van Nguyen
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
You mean other than the one place where you could/should go to find
anything perl?
http://www.perl.com ?
How about:
http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/CPAN.html
or
http://www.perl.com/CPAN
HTH.
Cheers,
Dave
--
Dave Barnett Software Support Engineer (281) 596-1434
Indecision is the key to flexibility.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Special notice: in a few days, the new group comp.lang.perl.moderated
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perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 3786
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