[10117] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3710 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Sep 14 12:08:34 1998
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 98 09:01:35 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 14 Sep 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 3710
Today's topics:
New posters to comp.lang.perl.misc <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
Re: newsgroups <perlguy@inlink.com>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses <jdporter@min.net>
Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses <borg@imaginary.com>
Re: Perl 's Help wanted <perlguy@inlink.com>
Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris? <wstubbs@hotmail.com>
Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris? <hendrik.woerdehoff@sdm.de>
Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris? (Honza Pazdziora)
Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris? dave@mag-sol.com
Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris? <sam@peritas.com>
PERL routine using wtmp? (photuris)
Perl Test or Questionare? <Christopher.Marquis@fairchildsemi.com>
Replace \n with <br> <jonah@g-s.net>
Re: Replace \n with <br> (Honza Pazdziora)
selective split <oczoske@astro.obs-mip.fr>
Sending E-mail from Prel CGI in on NT4 <yair_sc@netvision.net.il>
Re: Serial IO in Perl? <jdf@pobox.com>
Re: Serial IO in Perl? <bigbro@dmrt.nl>
Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98 (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1998 14:44:49 GMT
From: Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
Subject: New posters to comp.lang.perl.misc
Message-Id: <6tja51$slt$3@info.uah.edu>
Following is a summary of articles from new posters spanning a 7 day
period, beginning at 07 Sep 1998 14:23:21 GMT and ending at
14 Sep 1998 06:57:19 GMT.
Notes
=====
- A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it
does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
- All text after the last cut line (/^-- $/) in the body is
considered to be the author's signature.
- The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
in determining the "real" email address and name.
- Original Content Rating (OCR) is the ratio of the original content
volume to the total body volume.
- Find the News-Scan distribution on the CPAN!
<URL:http://www.perl.com/CPAN/modules/by-module/News/>
- Please send all comments to Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>.
- Copyright (c) 1998 Greg Bacon. All Rights Reserved.
Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted without royalty;
alteration is not permitted. Redistribution and/or use for any
commercial purpose is prohibited.
Totals
======
Posters: 221 (45.3% of all posters)
Articles: 355 (27.1% of all articles)
Volume generated: 679.6 kb (27.8% of total volume)
- headers: 254.3 kb (4,939 lines)
- bodies: 412.3 kb (12,204 lines)
- original: 304.0 kb (9,544 lines)
- signatures: 12.6 kb (235 lines)
Original Content Rating: 0.737
Averages
========
Posts per poster: 1.6
median: 1 post
mode: 1 post - 162 posters
s: 2.1 posts
Message size: 1960.2 bytes
- header: 733.6 bytes (13.9 lines)
- body: 1189.2 bytes (34.4 lines)
- original: 876.7 bytes (26.9 lines)
- signature: 36.4 bytes (0.7 lines)
Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
=================================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Posts Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Address
----- -------------------------- -------
27 97.1 ( 27.8/ 63.2/ 24.7) George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
8 6.3 ( 5.1/ 1.1/ 1.1) "Danny J. Sohier" <danny@spiff.bibl.ulaval.ca>
7 16.9 ( 4.8/ 10.7/ 6.1) mcafee@waits.facilities.med.umich.edu (Sean McAfee)
7 12.4 ( 5.6/ 6.8/ 3.1) dformosa@zeta.org.au (David Formosa)
7 10.4 ( 7.0/ 3.5/ 2.3) elaine ashton <elaine@cts.wustl.edu>
6 9.6 ( 3.9/ 5.8/ 4.6) jfpatry@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Jasmin F. Patry)
4 4.4 ( 2.7/ 1.8/ 1.1) "John Drummond" <john.drummond@guest.com>
4 6.2 ( 2.3/ 2.8/ 0.9) Park <okcivil@soback.kornet.nm.kr>
4 3.2 ( 2.2/ 0.9/ 0.9) burningboy@hotmail.com (James Bond 098)
4 5.9 ( 3.3/ 2.6/ 1.0) gspath@NOSPAM.epix.net (Gregory Spath)
These posters accounted for 5.9% of all articles.
Top 10 Posters by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Address
-------------------------- ----- -------
97.1 ( 27.8/ 63.2/ 24.7) 27 George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
65.9 ( 2.1/ 63.8/ 60.0) 1 Jeff Elli <pcflyernospam@earthlink.net>
16.9 ( 4.8/ 10.7/ 6.1) 7 mcafee@waits.facilities.med.umich.edu (Sean McAfee)
12.4 ( 5.6/ 6.8/ 3.1) 7 dformosa@zeta.org.au (David Formosa)
10.4 ( 7.0/ 3.5/ 2.3) 7 elaine ashton <elaine@cts.wustl.edu>
10.0 ( 0.8/ 9.2/ 3.0) 1 John Smith <CHANGE_THIS@CHANGE_THIS_ALSO.ch>
9.6 ( 3.9/ 5.8/ 4.6) 6 jfpatry@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Jasmin F. Patry)
9.6 ( 0.6/ 9.0/ 8.7) 1 John Hunter <jdhunter@nitace.bsd.uchicago.edu>
8.6 ( 0.5/ 8.1/ 8.1) 1 Fred_Gurzeler@rand.org (Fred Gurzeler)
6.8 ( 2.3/ 4.5/ 2.1) 3 tshinnic@io.com (Thomas L. Shinnick)
These posters accounted for 10.1% of the total volume.
Top 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of three posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
1.000 ( 1.1 / 1.1) 3 snorjb@wnt.sas.com (RonBo)
1.000 ( 2.1 / 2.1) 3 beju@my-dejanews.com
1.000 ( 0.9 / 0.9) 4 burningboy@hotmail.com (James Bond 098)
1.000 ( 0.2 / 0.2) 3 "jdcaraway@mindspring.com"@mindspring.com
1.000 ( 1.7 / 1.7) 3 jpa@formalsys.ca
1.000 ( 1.0 / 1.0) 3 "Terry L. Barlet" <tlbarlet@le-ana-enterprises.com>
1.000 ( 1.1 / 1.1) 8 "Danny J. Sohier" <danny@spiff.bibl.ulaval.ca>
1.000 ( 3.2 / 3.2) 3 "Jakub Dadak" <dadman@brainsys.cz>
0.927 ( 2.3 / 2.5) 3 "Mal" <malcolm.stevens@fnbinvest.co.za.remove_nospam>
0.921 ( 3.9 / 4.2) 3 "Paintbot" <news@paintbot.com>
Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of three posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.642 ( 1.1 / 1.8) 4 "John Drummond" <john.drummond@guest.com>
0.573 ( 6.1 / 10.7) 7 mcafee@waits.facilities.med.umich.edu (Sean McAfee)
0.515 ( 1.2 / 2.2) 3 Paraic O Ceallaigh <poc@quay.ie>
0.456 ( 3.1 / 6.8) 7 dformosa@zeta.org.au (David Formosa)
0.455 ( 2.1 / 4.5) 3 tshinnic@io.com (Thomas L. Shinnick)
0.391 ( 1.0 / 2.6) 4 gspath@NOSPAM.epix.net (Gregory Spath)
0.390 ( 24.7 / 63.2) 27 George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
0.331 ( 0.9 / 2.8) 4 Park <okcivil@soback.kornet.nm.kr>
0.314 ( 1.1 / 3.5) 3 Edwin Shin <eshin@mail.law.berkeley.edu>
0.209 ( 0.6 / 2.9) 3 jeff@vpservices.com
27 posters (12%) had at least three posts.
Top 10 Crossposters
===================
Articles Address
-------- -------
27 George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
25 Don Rife <rife45@earthlink.net>
25 Jeff Elli <pcflyernospam@earthlink.net>
4 Y W Wong <ywwong_hk@hotmail.com>
4 tshinnic@io.com (Thomas L. Shinnick)
4 gspath@NOSPAM.epix.net (Gregory Spath)
4 harold@foo.bar ()
4 "Ir. Marc W.F. Meurrens" <meurrens@ulb.ac.be>
3 "Alex Litvak" <alitvak@shrike.depaul.edu>
3 dformosa@zeta.org.au (David Formosa)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:58:31 GMT
From: Brent Michalski <perlguy@inlink.com>
Subject: Re: newsgroups
Message-Id: <35FD04E7.80BB7434@inlink.com>
Daniel Caraway wrote:
>
> How many newsgroups deal with cgi or perl and where can I find them?
Have you checked your news server? ... Just a thought.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 11:40:45 -0400
From: John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <35FBE77C.6BBC73D6@min.net>
George Reese wrote:
>
> Natural language is a superset of any computer language I certainly
> have ever programmed in. That would include both perl and python. I
> honestly do not know how a computer language could express something
> that you could not express in English--how would you even talk about
> such a thing?
You are saying that all rational human thought can be efficiently
expressed in (say) English. This is absurd. Just like much of
what you say. Take a hike. Better yet, go brush up on your
lambda calculus, first-order logic, and chaos theory.
--
John Porter
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:38:10 GMT
From: George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
Subject: Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses
Message-Id: <CLaL1.1514$E9.5234013@ptah.visi.com>
In comp.lang.java.programmer Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org> wrote:
: George Reese <borg@imaginary.com> wrote:
: : Though it's "function pointers" use very different, and, IMHO, more
: : powerful semantics.
: >snip<
: How so, exactly?
I am growing tired of this thread and this statement is not important
to my arguments, so I am just going to emphasize IMHO in the above and
let it ride. Perhaps another time we can discuss the value of Python
'function pointer' semantics vs. Perl.
: : In my experience, the regular expressions in both languages are
: : identical in function.
: Has Python finally developed zero-width lookahead and lookbehind,
: assertion, both positive and negative? Interlaced code in both
: the search and replace constructs? Subexpressions? Conditional
: expressions? Inlined modifiers?
I could not answer this question fully for either Perl or Python. Hopefully
someone else who knows Python well can answer it.
: I'm sure Python has built some of the higher level functionality
: of Perl pattern matching, but it's not "identical". Not by a
: long shot.
How do you know?
: : The Python version just meshes better into a
: : the Python semantics. The Perl version, IMHO, seems like a grafting
: : of line noise into line noise :)
: That's form, not function. Perl's patterns mesh better with the
: 1000's of other programs that use regular expressions and pattern
: matching.
: You claim that because there is "so much" talk about Perl being hard
: to read that maybe the Perl people should take note. By the same
: token, since pretty much no one has found any pattern syntax to
: compare to standard regular expressions, should't Python take note?
Python patterns are the same damn patterns as perl. You should parse
the results within an OO framework.
: : As a C programmer, you had an advantage--you were used to dealing
: : with hard to maintain code.
: Since when is C by definition hard to maintain? Try telling that
: to anyone on the core team for FreeBSD, Linux, Apache, etc. You'd
: be laughed out of the room.
Really? Just because someone maintains a C codebase successfully does
not mean that task is easy.
: Good programmers write good code. Bad programmers write crap,
: regardless of the language. One can create write only code in
: any language with the same ease.
:
: In fact, it takes quite the experienced Perl programmer to write
: really hard to read code. This is the basis of the obfusted Perl
: contests. Of course no one does that in production code. Such
: code is for fun and not for practicality.
This is totally false. While it takes an experienced perl programmer
to win an obfuscated perl contest, one of the drawbacks of languages
like perl, C, and C++ is that you have to be experienced to write
clear code.
In Python or Java (moreso Python than Java), you have to intentionally
set out to write unclear code. That is one of their key
maintainability advantages.
: : Furthermore, my claim comes from
: : discussing this with people skilled at both perl and python
: : programming and with experience at getting people who know neither to
: : learn them.
: I picked up the core of the Java language in a week of reading a
: book just on my train ride to work. I've been programming Perl
: for the better part of the decade and still don't know all the
: power it holds. But guess what, I don't need to know all of it
: to write good, clean, and productive code. One doesn't even need
: to know most of it.
You have just made an argument against Perl.
: They can "baby talk" small useful programs
: if they don't want to pick it all up. That's a big difference
: from most other languages, Python included. You need to learn
: much more before you can do much of any use beyond "hello world".
What exactly have you done with Python? Python is just as easy to
'baby talk' your way through.
As a matter of fact, "Hello world" in both perl and python are
IDENTICAL (excepting the trivial /usr/local/bin/python instead of
/usr/local/bin/perl at the top).
: Just because some something is "simple" (GUIs, AOL, toasters, etc),
: or easy to understand without looking anything up in a manual at
: all, does not in any way make it more *efficient* to use. MS
: Wordpad is by far one of the easiest to use editors around, however
: it is also one of the most inefficient. The same holds true for
: computer languages and spoken languages.
The opposite is true. Just because something is complex does not make
it in any way more efficient to use.
Complexity is certain, however, to guarantee you a smaller set of
people who can use the tool.
: : While that is not a formal study, I have quite honestly
: : never met someone who was experienced with both languages who did not
: : think the difference in maintainability between the two was like night
: : and day.
: Perl requires more self control then other languages, I'll give
: you that.
That is bad.
: IMHO that's a small price to pay for the extra power
: and freedom Perl provides. This goes back to my "simple vs
: efficient" arguments above. It is no harder to write highly
: maintainable code in Perl then it is Python or nearly any other
: language for that matter. Your only valid argument is it also
: gives the user quite a bit of rope to hang themself with. To
: quote Larry Wall:
: "Many computer scientists have fallen into the trap of trying to
: define languages like George Orwell's Newspeak, in which it is
: impossible to think bad thoughts. What they end up doing is killing
: the creativity of programming."
Larry Wall was simply wrong. Languages like Python and Java prove
that you can create well-structured programming languages that do not
in any way stifle creativity.
: : On the defensive? Why would you get defensive about a programming
: : language?
: Emacs is a religion, so why can't languages be? ;-)
I would prefer to see everything argued on its merits and not on
emotion. I ertainly don't think computer languages (or editors) are
worthy of emotional attachment.
: : Something that would work for perl developers? I don't think so. But
: : I do think the degree to which perl is disaparaged foor its
: : unreadability should be something that strikes you like a neon sign in
: : the dead of night.
: And I think the massive degree to which Perl is used in every
: fascet of the industry should be something that strikes you
: like a neon sign in the dead of night that maybe, just maybe,
: it's doing something right.
You overestimate perl's pervasiveness. Perl's evolution beyond system
administration is an accident of being in the right place at the right
time. It is also an accident that is being rectified.
: : You are terribly wrong. A programming language is a construct to
: : formalize human desires so that they can be translated into a form
: : understandable by machines.
: Human desires can not be directly translated into machine
: understandable form. If they could, anyone could be a
: programmer.
Human languages can express what we want a computer to do. The
problem is that human languages are filled with ambiguities that we
cannot yet resolve via translation into machine code. In other words,
you are not contradicting what I have stated here.
: Programming has very little to do with typical human thought,
: simply because humans are anything but logical.
This is 100% untrue. First of all, humans are very logical. In fact,
they are mostly logical. Going further into this is to stray way off
topic, so I will just reference a few authors for you who discuss the
topic: Daniel Dennett, Donald Davidson, and Fred Dretske. It is
called 'the principle of charity' (and a few other names). It
basically comes in the form that humans are mostly rational. You have
to grant them that since you would never be able to make tails of
the actions of others if they were not rational.
At any rate, the issue is that human thought differs from computer
thought simply because humans have many more inputs and thus need a
different mechanism for arriving at answers than do computer.
And this is all irrelevant to computer programming. At the level of
computer programs, humans can express their instructions in English.
The problem is not with the humans, it is with the computers not being
able to understand that language.
: : The ideal programming language would be a human language at a 5th
: : grade reading level.
: No, it wouldn't.
I am sorry, but I do not take this to be a very good argument against
what I said.
: : Unfortunately, human languages are notoriously ambiguous and hard to
: : compute.
: Which is exactly why it wouldn't. Human thought and the best
: procedure to get a particular task done are quite different.
The premise of the ideal programming language being human language is
that we have a mechanism for disambiguating the human language
sentences.
Clearly, if I state the problem with human languages is their
ambiguity and then say that I think a human language would be an ideal
programming language I am implying that the problem has somehow been
dealt with.
: : Perl is often a string of non-alphabetic characters that have contextual
: : meaning
: Real World Perl code is anything close to this.
I think the best example I can offer to people is to read the source
code to majordomo and compare it to mailman. These are two mailing
list programs, one perl, the other python.
: : (often used without any respect to how we use them in normal discourse)
: In what language? If Python used Chinese symbols instead of English
: words, would it still be so "easy to read and maintain"? Not for
: me, and probably not for you, but it would for 2 billion people that
: probably would find { block } a lot easier to read then begin/end
: or similar English words.
: These 2 billion people are going to have just as much if not more
: of a problem with Python's constructs then the meening of {}, (),
: et al that don't even have a "normal discourse" of use for them.
This is a non-sequitur. First, Chinese in the programming world uses
English characters for the most part--in any language. Second, it
follows from my arguments that I do think python is going to be harder
for a Chinese person (or French person, for that matter) than for an
English person.
That just makes perl much, much harder for those folks.
: : and laced with implied behaviour. That you cannot deny. And all of
: : those things renders it hard to read.
: Quite a huge user base, including myself, would argue that the
: implied behaviour you hate makes both reading and writing programs
: much, much easier.
That is a statement neither you can support nor that I can argue
against. I have maintained, however, that long time perl programmers
are not the best judges of perl maintainability and readability.
People with equal perl/python experience or with no experience in
either (but with programming experience) are the best judges.
: : Excessive whitespace? Only someone who believes in terseness would argue
: : that.
: "Conciseness is a virtue, when maintaining code at 3am".
Throwing around cute rhetorical quotes does not make an argument.
: Magic whitespace is pure evil. Look at makefiles if you don't
: believe that. There are very, very good reasons why almost no
: common computer languages use it, at least not extensively.
If you are comparing python's use of whitespace with that of a
Makefile, it is you who are evil. They are nothing alike.
: >snip<
: : periods, but anyone with any programming experience should be able to
: >snip< ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
: : If it comes out looking like something only a perl expert could read,
: : it is no good. ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
: You're contradicting yourself, badly. Either the code should
: be readable my a monkey that only knows sign language, or it
: only needs to be readable by someone with experience and teachings
: in it. It could be a gray area in the middle somewere, but that
: is not the argument you are presenting. Please make up your mind.
I can only assume you willfully misinterpreted me here for rhetorical
points. The set of people 'with any programming experience' is vastly
greater than the set of 'perl experts'. No where did I mention
anything about monkeys. I said the IDEAL language would be human
language with a disambiguation process so that EVERYONE could read and
write computer programs. That is clearly not what python is. I have
nowhere tried to argue that is what python is. I have only argued
that python is a lot closer to that than perl is.
In other words, to read python code, you need to be an experienced
programmer.
In order to read perl code, you need at least to be a perl
programmer--for a lot of it, you need to be an experienced perl programmer.
That is a huge difference--especially if you are busy trying to hire
people in this market.
: : (and, as I pointed out, easier for a non-python/non-perl programmer to
: : read).
: But probably not for the assembly or BASIC programmer.
For any programmer.
: : Python has tons of modules as well.
: Quite true. The integration system however, leaves much to be
: desired. It has nothing even remotely close to the power of
: PAUSE and CPAN.pm, but then, nothing else on the planet currently
: comes close to them.
How do you know? What exactly do these modules do?
: : And software reuse does not make something OO.
: Quite correct. The only correct thing I've seen you write, but
: it is correct. :-)
: And on the flip side, OO does not make something reusable.
If it is properly OO, it is very likely to be reusable.
: : Perl IS NOT OO.
: You're right, it's not OO in the pure sense, but then neither is
: Python and neither is Java. Probably because every "pure" OO
: language that has come around isn't flexible enough for the real
: world (sorry, but SmallTalk is dieing out). OO is a tool, and
: just a tool. It is not in anyway the end all be all best way
: to program everything, nore is it even the best way *most* of
: the time.
Java is pure OO. Python is close enough. Python only supports the
weak encapsulation of data, which is where its OO credentials fall
apart. For a scripting language (the way I recommend using Python),
this is a good design choice.
OO is not simply a tool. It is a way of engineering applications from
the moment you conceive of doing something (in some cases, even
before) until you actually write the code. A good OO language is an
important tool in maintaining the OO paradigm across the process.
: While Perl is not pure OO, it is very easy to write highly OO
: Perl code. Just as easy infact as Python and just as "OO" as
: Python, if not more so. The arguable over use of OO code at CPAN
: can prove that without a doubt.
: Perl gives you the freedom to take or leave OO at any time as best
: fits the particular part of the task at hand.
That is a freedom that has no place in an OO language. You do not
combine a structured software engineering process with a weak link.
It is like sticking a pipe with a huge leak inside your plumbing.
Perl is quite simply no where as OO as python.
: : It just added some OO constructs as an afterthought.
: So is C++. Some, myself included, would call this "afterthought" an
: extremely good example of "reuse" in real use. Why reinvent the
: wheel when you've got a perfectly good one already? If you insist
: on reinventing the wheel, at least try to invent a better one. As
: many of us would argue, Python, of all languages, has not done that.
Be careful of the examples you choose. In OO circles, C++ is
considered to be about the worst example of OO available.
That is because OO is 'not simply a tool'. Because of the structured
nature of the OO software engineering process, you need a language
that enforces your structure.
: : I invite you to check out http://www.python.org.
: Been there, done that, gut the T-shirt. :-)
: Python is getting better, but it still has a *huge* game of catchup
: to play.
Since I cannot answer the functionality question above, I can only in
good faith concede that bit of functionality to you based on my
ignorance (and not necessarily any fact about python). However, it is
a long way from that one piece of functionality to 'python has a huge
game of catchup to play'.
--
George Reese (borg@imaginary.com) http://www.imaginary.com/~borg
PGP Key: http://www.imaginary.com/servlet/Finger?user=borg&verbose=yes
"Keep Ted Turner and his goddamned Crayolas away from my movie."
-Orson Welles
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 11:36:54 GMT
From: Brent Michalski <perlguy@inlink.com>
Subject: Re: Perl 's Help wanted
Message-Id: <35FCFFD6.2CF7D57F@inlink.com>
> I don't know perl.
>
> I installed perl program on my pc, windows 95.
> I tried the typical example, hello.pl
>
> The script run well in the command line itself. (I typed perl hello.pl,
> OK!)
>
> But I do not know how to run the script in IE3.
>
> Can someone tell me, HOW?
Sure,
Go to http://www.activestate.com/support/faqs/win32/ and start reading.
Also, http://www.perl.com has TONS of articles, tutorials and FAQ's.
Start reading, and actually do what the documentation says! It is there
to help.
While this newsgroup _is_ to help people with Perl problems, it _does
not_ exist to hold your hand every step of the way. THAT is why we have
created such a vast array of documentation and placed it in easy-to-find
locations on the web.
Good luck!
brent
--
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$ Brent Michalski $
$ -- Perl Evangelist -- $
$ E-Mail: perlguy@technologist.com $
$ Resume: http://www.inlink.com/~perlguy $
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:03:00 +1000
From: "William A Stubbs" <wstubbs@hotmail.com>
Subject: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris?
Message-Id: <35fcf77d.0@139.134.5.33>
Hi,
I'm in the position of needing to access an Oracle database running on
Solaris from some perl cgi scripts running on an NT web server..
Does anyone have any pointers on how I should approach this.. Previously I
have been using Win32::ODBC for accessing databases running on Win32
machines..
Thanks
William
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:40:33 +0200
From: Hendrik Woerdehoff <hendrik.woerdehoff@sdm.de>
Subject: Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris?
Message-Id: <35FD00B1.1090@sdm.de>
William A Stubbs wrote:
> I'm in the position of needing to access an Oracle database running on
> Solaris from some perl cgi scripts running on an NT web server..
>
> Does anyone have any pointers on how I should approach this.. Previously I
> have been using Win32::ODBC for accessing databases running on Win32
> machines..
You need SQL*Net from Oracle to get a connection from any remote
computer to access your database. SQL*Net is available from Windows.
After installing SQL*Net you can use any means Perl offers to access an
Oracle database (DBD::Oracle or maybe DBD::ODBC).
Or you have a look at http://www.openlink.com and see what they can do
for you with their request broker.
Greetings
Hendrik
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, Sec. 227,
any and all unsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US (per infraction). E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
--
Hendrik W"ordehoff |s |d &|m | software design & management
| | | | GmbH & Co. KG :
woerdehoff@sdm.de | | | | Thomas-Dehler-Str. 27 >B)
Tel/Fax (089) 63812-337/515 81737 M"unchen :
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:39:37 GMT
From: adelton@fi.muni.cz (Honza Pazdziora)
Subject: Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris?
Message-Id: <slrn6vq3k9.n1j.adelton@aisa.fi.muni.cz>
On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:40:33 +0200, Hendrik Woerdehoff <hendrik.woerdehoff@sdm.de> wrote:
>
> You need SQL*Net from Oracle to get a connection from any remote
> computer to access your database. SQL*Net is available from Windows.
Another possibility is DBD::Proxy (formerly DBD::pNET) that does the
network connection, in case you do not want to pay for SQL*Net.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honza Pazdziora | adelton@fi.muni.cz | http://www.fi.muni.cz/~adelton/
I can take or leave it if I please
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:57:52 GMT
From: dave@mag-sol.com
Subject: Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris?
Message-Id: <6tjatg$ted$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <35fcf77d.0@139.134.5.33>,
"William A Stubbs" <wstubbs@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I'm in the position of needing to access an Oracle database running on
> Solaris from some perl cgi scripts running on an NT web server..
>
> Does anyone have any pointers on how I should approach this.. Previously I
> have been using Win32::ODBC for accessing databases running on Win32
> machines..
William,
You need to look at DBI and DBD::Oracle. You can get them both from CPAN. IF
you're running an NT web server using ActivePerl, you can also get these
modules from ActiveState's Package Repository using PPM.
hth,
Dave...
--
dave@mag-sol.com
London Perl M[ou]ngers: <http://www.mag-sol.com/London.pm/>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:11:27 +0100
From: Simon Matthews <sam@peritas.com>
Subject: Re: Perl on NT to access Oracle on Solaris?
Message-Id: <35FD321F.A6D56859@peritas.com>
dave@mag-sol.com wrote:
>
> In article <35fcf77d.0@139.134.5.33>,
> "William A Stubbs" <wstubbs@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I'm in the position of needing to access an Oracle database running on
> > Solaris from some perl cgi scripts running on an NT web server..
> >
> > Does anyone have any pointers on how I should approach this.. Previously I
> > have been using Win32::ODBC for accessing databases running on Win32
> > machines..
>
> William,
>
> You need to look at DBI and DBD::Oracle. You can get them both from CPAN. IF
> you're running an NT web server using ActivePerl, you can also get these
> modules from ActiveState's Package Repository using PPM.
Or you could just get the Oracle ODBC Driver and continue to use
Win32::ODBC.
Hope this helps.
SAM
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1998 14:21:36 GMT
From: photuris@photuris.jehosophat.com (photuris)
Subject: PERL routine using wtmp?
Message-Id: <slrn6vq9gq.io8.photuris@photuris.jehosophat.com>
Folks,
I'd love to have a script that sends an email to my pager telling me whenever
someone logs into my RedHat (5.1) Linux box. Something that could perhaps
monitor wtmp and fire off an auto email telling me WHO logged in ....
Does something like that already exist?
thanks for any replies.
--
photuris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 08:10:34 -0400
From: Christopher Marquis <Christopher.Marquis@fairchildsemi.com>
Subject: Perl Test or Questionare?
Message-Id: <35FD07BA.77E8C184@fairchildsemi.com>
I am recruitung a new Perl programmer for my team. I'm pretty sure I
could spot a good one after a few minutes of talking with them, but I
had seen on here a while back that there was a test or a questionare
that was floating around. I was wondering if someone had a list of Perl
questions that I could give to them before I even went as far as do a
face to face. Thanks in advance for the assistance!
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:09:51 +0200
From: "Jonah Olsson" <jonah@g-s.net>
Subject: Replace \n with <br>
Message-Id: <dT7L1.19$ij3.57300@nntpserver.swip.net>
Hello!
Here's two questions. I hope someone can help me.
1. How can I replace the \n with <br> when I read a text file using the
following code:
open (CHAT, "$datafile") || die "The chat will be back soon! ($!)\n";
local $/ = '%%%';
while (<CHAT>) {
($name,$from,$time,$text) = split(/\|/,$_);
print "<b>$name</b> fren $from at $time<br>\n$text<p>\n";
}
close (CHAT);
2. In the textfile that the above code gets, each cunk ends with %%%. How
can I remove these in the HTML output?
Thanks for any help!
//Jonah
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:42:13 GMT
From: adelton@fi.muni.cz (Honza Pazdziora)
Subject: Re: Replace \n with <br>
Message-Id: <slrn6vq3p4.n1j.adelton@aisa.fi.muni.cz>
On Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:09:51 +0200, Jonah Olsson <jonah@g-s.net> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> Here's two questions. I hope someone can help me.
>
> 1. How can I replace the \n with <br> when I read a text file using the
> following code:
[...]
> 2. In the textfile that the above code gets, each cunk ends with %%%. How
> can I remove these in the HTML output?
The general substitute operator is called s in Perl. Removing string
is just substituting it with empty (zero length) string.
s/// is described in perlop man page.
Hope this helps,
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honza Pazdziora | adelton@fi.muni.cz | http://www.fi.muni.cz/~adelton/
I can take or leave it if I please
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 16:53:52 +0200
From: Oliver Czoske <oczoske@astro.obs-mip.fr>
Subject: selective split
Message-Id: <35FD2E00.5F5E@astro.obs-mip.fr>
Hi,
this should be a very common problem, but as I'm not used to regexps I
haven't yet found a solution. What I want to do is to split a database
entry where the fields are separated by ':'. Now, the fields themselves
may contain colons which are then masked by a backslash. How do I get
split to split at colons unless they are preceded by a backslash?
Thanks for any help.
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Oliver Czoske e-mail: oczoske@ast.obs-mip.fr
Observatoire Midi-Pyrenees Tel.: +33 5 61 33 28 29
14, av. Edouard Belin Fax: +33 5 61 33 28 40
31400 Toulouse
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.hs.uni-hamburg.de/german/persons/czoske.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 15:55:32 +0100
From: "yair schaffer" <yair_sc@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Sending E-mail from Prel CGI in on NT4
Message-Id: <6tjbc1$edd$1@news.netvision.net.il>
Hi,
Does anyone know how to
send mail from Perl CGI on NT4 ?
tanx,
yair.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1998 15:10:04 +0200
From: Jonathan Feinberg <jdf@pobox.com>
To: "Vincent Verhagen" <bigbro@dmrt.nl>
Subject: Re: Serial IO in Perl?
Message-Id: <m34sua4z83.fsf@joshua.panix.com>
"Vincent Verhagen" <bigbro@dmrt.nl> writes:
> ...I have to be able to read from and write to ttyS1 but I'm not
> sure how this can be done within Perl
Please see perlfaq8, "How do I read and write the serial port?"
--
Jonathan Feinberg jdf@pobox.com Sunny Brooklyn, NY
http://pobox.com/~jdf
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1998 13:26:23 GMT
From: "Vincent Verhagen" <bigbro@dmrt.nl>
Subject: Re: Serial IO in Perl?
Message-Id: <01bddfe2$fc9b96e0$640aa8c0@situtr666>
Jonathan Feinberg <jdf@pobox.com> wrote in article
<m34sua4z83.fsf@joshua.panix.com>...
> "Vincent Verhagen" <bigbro@dmrt.nl> writes:
>
> > ...I have to be able to read from and write to ttyS1 but I'm not
> > sure how this can be done within Perl
>
> Please see perlfaq8, "How do I read and write the serial port?"
>
> --
> Jonathan Feinberg jdf@pobox.com Sunny Brooklyn, NY
> http://pobox.com/~jdf
>
Thanks, that helped. I should have thought of that one myself, though....
Again, thanks.
Vincent.
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1998 14:44:21 GMT
From: Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
Subject: Statistics for comp.lang.perl.misc
Message-Id: <6tja45$slt$2@info.uah.edu>
Following is a summary of articles spanning a 7 day period,
beginning at 07 Sep 1998 14:23:21 GMT and ending at
14 Sep 1998 06:57:19 GMT.
Notes
=====
- A line in the body of a post is considered to be original if it
does *not* match the regular expression /^\s{0,3}(?:>|:|\S+>|\+\+)/.
- All text after the last cut line (/^-- $/) in the body is
considered to be the author's signature.
- The scanner prefers the Reply-To: header over the From: header
in determining the "real" email address and name.
- Original Content Rating (OCR) is the ratio of the original content
volume to the total body volume.
- Find the News-Scan distribution on the CPAN!
<URL:http://www.perl.com/CPAN/modules/by-module/News/>
- Please send all comments to Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>.
- Copyright (c) 1998 Greg Bacon. All Rights Reserved.
Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted without royalty;
alteration is not permitted. Redistribution and/or use for any
commercial purpose is prohibited.
Excluded Posters
================
perlfaq-suggestions\@mox\.perl\.com
Totals
======
Posters: 488
Articles: 1311 (531 with cutlined signatures)
Threads: 428
Volume generated: 2447.3 kb
- headers: 953.9 kb (18,483 lines)
- bodies: 1398.4 kb (43,175 lines)
- original: 926.6 kb (30,939 lines)
- signatures: 93.8 kb (1,921 lines)
Original Content Rating: 0.663
Averages
========
Posts per poster: 2.7
median: 1.0 post
mode: 1 post - 295 posters
s: 4.6 posts
Posts per thread: 3.1
median: 2.0 posts
mode: 1 post - 149 threads
s: 5.4 posts
Message size: 1911.6 bytes
- header: 745.1 bytes (14.1 lines)
- body: 1092.3 bytes (32.9 lines)
- original: 723.7 bytes (23.6 lines)
- signature: 73.2 bytes (1.5 lines)
Top 10 Posters by Number of Posts
=================================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Posts Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Address
----- -------------------------- -------
39 60.2 ( 26.3/ 29.6/ 14.9) Gellyfish@btinternet.com (Jonathan Stowe)
36 62.3 ( 22.5/ 35.6/ 21.2) lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
27 97.1 ( 27.8/ 63.2/ 24.7) George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
27 48.0 ( 22.5/ 20.0/ 13.3) mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
26 50.6 ( 25.3/ 25.2/ 12.3) John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
26 39.4 ( 23.4/ 15.9/ 9.3) Elaine -HappyFunBall- Ashton <eashton@bbnplanet.com>
25 45.8 ( 19.1/ 20.3/ 10.8) rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball)
19 37.1 ( 14.7/ 19.9/ 14.5) tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen)
18 40.5 ( 14.0/ 26.2/ 20.8) bill@fccj.org
17 30.8 ( 13.7/ 14.1/ 6.2) abigail@fnx.com
These posters accounted for 19.8% of all articles.
Top 10 Posters by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Address
-------------------------- ----- -------
97.1 ( 27.8/ 63.2/ 24.7) 27 George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
65.9 ( 2.1/ 63.8/ 60.0) 1 Jeff Elli <pcflyernospam@earthlink.net>
62.3 ( 22.5/ 35.6/ 21.2) 36 lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
60.2 ( 26.3/ 29.6/ 14.9) 39 Gellyfish@btinternet.com (Jonathan Stowe)
53.6 ( 12.9/ 35.8/ 24.6) 14 Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
50.6 ( 25.3/ 25.2/ 12.3) 26 John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
48.0 ( 22.5/ 20.0/ 13.3) 27 mgjv@comdyn.com.au (Martien Verbruggen)
45.8 ( 19.1/ 20.3/ 10.8) 25 rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu (Ronald J Kimball)
40.5 ( 14.0/ 26.2/ 20.8) 18 bill@fccj.org
39.4 ( 23.4/ 15.9/ 9.3) 26 Elaine -HappyFunBall- Ashton <eashton@bbnplanet.com>
These posters accounted for 23.0% of the total volume.
Top 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
1.000 ( 1.1 / 1.1) 8 "Danny J. Sohier" <danny@spiff.bibl.ulaval.ca>
0.964 ( 15.9 / 16.5) 5 Greg Bacon <gbacon@cs.uah.edu>
0.904 ( 3.1 / 3.5) 8 gebis@fee.ecn.purdue.edu (Michael J Gebis)
0.799 ( 4.6 / 5.8) 6 jfpatry@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Jasmin F. Patry)
0.793 ( 20.8 / 26.2) 18 bill@fccj.org
0.757 ( 9.3 / 12.3) 14 mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus)
0.743 ( 6.4 / 8.6) 13 aml@world.std.com (Andrew M. Langmead)
0.729 ( 14.9 / 20.4) 14 tadmc@metronet.com (Tad McClellan)
0.728 ( 14.5 / 19.9) 19 tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen)
0.726 ( 2.2 / 3.0) 5 Daniel Grisinger <dgris@rand.dimensional.com>
Bottom 10 Posters by OCR (minimum of five posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Address
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.425 ( 2.6 / 6.2) 5 Steven Lembark <lembark@wrkhors.com>
0.414 ( 3.3 / 7.9) 8 Jan Krynicky <JKRY3025@comenius.ms.mff.cuni.cz>
0.404 ( 1.5 / 3.8) 7 ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Charles DeRykus)
0.390 ( 24.7 / 63.2) 27 George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
0.385 ( 12.8 / 33.3) 6 bjohnsto_usa_net@my-dejanews.com
0.374 ( 1.1 / 2.9) 6 "Matthew O. Persico" <mpersico@erols.com>
0.368 ( 3.7 / 10.1) 8 Garry Williams <garry@america.net>
0.354 ( 1.5 / 4.3) 5 NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell)
0.346 ( 5.9 / 17.1) 8 Ala Qumsieh <aqumsieh@tigre.matrox.com>
0.327 ( 1.6 / 4.8) 5 Jim Brewer <jimbo@soundimages.co.uk>
59 posters (12%) had at least five posts.
Top 10 Threads by Number of Posts
=================================
Posts Subject
----- -------
74 Perl & Java - differences and uses
51 Perl Programmer Needed
27 History of Perl - round 1
22 Off topic, but ... [Was Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses]
20 QUESTIONS (was: Perl Programmer Needed)
18 Search/Replace but Not under certain conditions. HOW?
17 Objects & type checking
16 Perl gurus opinion needed.
13 How do I extract last line from multiline string?
10 reading a file backward
These threads accounted for 20.4% of all articles.
Top 10 Threads by Volume
========================
(kb) (kb) (kb) (kb)
Volume ( hdr/ body/ orig) Posts Subject
-------------------------- ----- -------
267.3 ( 72.9/183.3/ 92.5) 74 Perl & Java - differences and uses
134.1 ( 47.9/ 80.1/ 45.1) 51 Perl Programmer Needed
74.2 ( 6.1/ 68.1/ 63.2) 3 Homepage
42.5 ( 24.2/ 15.9/ 9.1) 27 History of Perl - round 1
37.1 ( 22.5/ 11.1/ 5.0) 22 Off topic, but ... [Was Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses]
33.6 ( 13.5/ 18.9/ 11.3) 17 Objects & type checking
32.6 ( 14.5/ 17.0/ 11.4) 20 QUESTIONS (was: Perl Programmer Needed)
26.9 ( 7.5/ 17.4/ 11.1) 10 reading a file backward
26.2 ( 13.4/ 12.0/ 7.1) 18 Search/Replace but Not under certain conditions. HOW?
23.8 ( 13.2/ 9.4/ 4.3) 16 Perl gurus opinion needed.
These threads accounted for 28.5% of the total volume.
Top 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of five posts)
==============================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.931 ( 1.3/ 1.4) 6 how to quote ;
0.817 ( 5.7/ 7.0) 6 sorting strings
0.804 ( 4.5/ 5.6) 5 ANN: Backwards.pm
0.800 ( 0.9/ 1.1) 6 SPSS Gateways in PERL
0.778 ( 5.1/ 6.6) 6 Comments on my Code?
0.775 ( 9.0/ 11.7) 7 Absolute and Relative paths
0.774 ( 3.4/ 4.3) 5 IO::File Permissions - Revisited
0.770 ( 1.9/ 2.5) 6 Regular Expression - substitution from lower to upper case...how?
0.768 ( 3.2/ 4.1) 6 Displaying record count
0.762 ( 7.0/ 9.2) 8 replacing text in a string
Bottom 10 Threads by OCR (minimum of five posts)
=================================================
(kb) (kb)
OCR orig / body Posts Subject
----- -------------- ----- -------
0.496 ( 2.7 / 5.4) 7 a simple question hopefully
0.495 ( 3.9 / 8.0) 8 Stripping out 'bad' HTML
0.495 ( 1.5 / 3.0) 5 Problem: dereferencing references to hashes
0.476 ( 5.6 / 11.8) 13 How do I extract last line from multiline string?
0.461 ( 2.9 / 6.4) 5 using loadable modules...
0.459 ( 4.3 / 9.4) 16 Perl gurus opinion needed.
0.452 ( 5.0 / 11.1) 22 Off topic, but ... [Was Re: Perl & Java - differences and uses]
0.444 ( 3.1 / 6.9) 7 Pattern substitution
0.443 ( 3.8 / 8.7) 7 Perl-Cgi-htaccess is this as simple as I think it is?
0.407 ( 1.9 / 4.7) 5 Perl documentation
62 threads (14%) had at least five posts.
Top 10 Targets for Crossposts
=============================
Articles Newsgroup
-------- ---------
78 comp.lang.java.programmer
31 comp.lang.perl.modules
18 comp.lang.perl
12 claranet.local.help
7 alt.usage.english
6 comp.infosystems.www.servers.unix
5 comp.lang.cobol
4 comp.lang.rexx
4 comp.unix.admin
4 comp.lang.perl.moderated
Top 10 Crossposters
===================
Articles Address
-------- -------
27 George Reese <borg@imaginary.com>
25 peterp@netteens.com
25 Don Rife <rife45@earthlink.net>
25 Jeff Elli <pcflyernospam@earthlink.net>
9 John Porter <jdporter@min.net>
6 bjohnsto_usa_net@my-dejanews.com
5 Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
4 NukeEmUp@ThePentagon.com (David Cantrell)
4 gspath@NOSPAM.epix.net (Gregory Spath)
4 hex@voicenet.com (Matt Knecht)
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 98 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Special: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 12 Mar 98)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
Special notice: in a few days, the new group comp.lang.perl.moderated
should be formed. I would rather not support two different groups, and I
know of no other plans to create a digested moderated group. This leaves
me with two options: 1) keep on with this group 2) change to the
moderated one.
If you have opinions on this, send them to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
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To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
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To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
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To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
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The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
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perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
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For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 3710
**************************************
