[46701] in Cypherpunks
RE: "trust management" vs. "certified identity"
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Timothy C. May)
Sun Jan 7 13:59:43 1996
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 1996 12:00:18 -0800
To: cypherpunks@toad.com
From: tcmay@got.net (Timothy C. May)
At 9:40 AM 1/7/96, Frank O'Dwyer wrote:
>I'm not saying that trust requires identity (it obviously doesn't,
>since we all make trusted cash transactions all the time
>without having to produce any id.). But it is usually easier to
>determine (and vouch for) who a stranger is than how trustworthy
>they are, if only because there are quick and easy real-world
>mechanisms for this (driver's licence, passport,etc.). That's all
>I meant.
We already operate largely in a "web of trust" model world.
Here's a pertinent example. I've met perhaps 100 people from this list,
over the last several years. Not a single one--not even one--have I ever
seen any "proofs of identity" for. Did I say "Not a single one"?
I deal with them as "persistent personnas," with either their physical
appearances (biometric security) or their writing styles/e-mail addresses
providing the continuity of their persistent personna.
Thus, I have no idea whether "Lucky Green" is "really" Lucky Green, or
Greene, or was born with some other name in some other country. (I suspect
this to be true, but I don't really care.) I have no interest in seeing a
piece of paper from Sacramento saying "Lucky Green" is really Lucky Green,
etc.
I could go on about how people I have already met "introduce" me to others,
a la the Web of Trust model, but it just echoes how people have _always_
met others, come to deal with them, even "trust" them.
Frankly, the notion that a central government would issue proofs of
trustability, via identity cards and the like, is a modern invention.
(The message of Vinge's "True Names" was partly ironic, that one's True
Name is important primarily in allowing tagging by the government. Ordinary
people rarely need True Names. As I said, I've never checked the supposed
True Names of those I deal with. Nor have most of you, I strongly suspect.
In fact, given the way credentials can be so easily forged, I wouldn't
trust a driver's license or even a passport. And given the government's
ability and demonstrated willingness to generate false
documentation--60,000 new identities in the Witness Security Program, plus
all the spies, narcs, etc.--I even more surely don't care what official
identification supposedly proves.)
I don't want official proof of my identity. If others want it, let them
make their own arrangements.
"Papieren, bitte! Macht schnell!"
--Klaus
We got computers, we're tapping phone lines, we know that that ain't allowed.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
tcmay@got.net 408-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Higher Power: 2^756839 - 1 | black markets, collapse of governments.
"National borders aren't even speed bumps on the information superhighway."
