[117247] in Cypherpunks
Re: ACTION ALERT: Crypto Legislation
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Tim May)
Sun Aug 29 22:56:10 1999
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<Pine.LNX.4.10.9908291418390.22712-100000@spitfire.law.miami.edu>
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Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 19:16:54 -0700
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
From: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
Reply-To: Tim May <tcmay@got.net>
At 11:21 AM -0700 1999-08-29, Michael Froomkin - U.Miami School of Law wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Aug 1999, Declan McCullagh wrote:
>
>> There have been some law review articles talking about this. Short answer
>> seems to be if you're requested to turn over/decrypt info in a case when
>> you're not a defendant, you gotta on pain of contempt. Defendants have 5A
>> claim.
>
>This is maybe is a little too short an answer. The 5th Am. applies with
>equal force whether or not you are a defendant, so long as (1) the info is
>in your control (e.g. it's really yours and not, say, a corporate record),
>and (2) it would potentially tend to incriminate you (which is why you
>have do disclose it if they give you immunity, like it or not).
>
>Embarrassing you, or incriminating your friends does not trigger the 5th.
A question for the Fifth experts out there:
Assuming the immunity is "full immunity," can the gubment request _all_
records? Can they request (or even seize) my records? And if they find
evidence that, hypothetically, I am planning to assassinate Sen. Diane
Feinstein, or have actually already done so, does the "full immunity" save
me from _any_ use of the information they found in my records?
(It seems to me obvious that "full immunity" cannot be "full" if they use
some of what they find; this applies to even using what they find to go
track down "independent" records, such as my taxicab ride from SFO to
DiFi's aptly-named Russian Hill digs.)
Secondly, assuming the immunity is "use immunity," the same questions.
(Again, it seems obvious that if they force records to be disclosed in one
case, then use what they find to prosecute in a different case, that the
intent of the Fifth, about forcing a witness to incriminate himself, has
been trampled upon.)
As a felon in so many areas, I have no doubt whatsoever that gubment goons
sifting though many years' worth of my e-mail, encrypted or not, could find
many pieces of evidence implicating me in felonies.
(The most recent one I committed just today at the San Jose Gun Show. I
won't say what it is, but I did score some good Lake City .50BMG
armor-piercing ammo at a wonderful price. .50 caliber AP stuff will really
rock someone's world. From a couple of miles away.)
For the record, I was not subpoenaed for the C. Johnson trial in Tacoma. I
expect that if I had been, I would have shown up at the courthouse at the
appointed time (assuming their travel agent wonks made suitable
arrangements for my travel requirements). I expect I would not have taken
any records with me. My e-mail is scattered across many disks, active hard
disks, uninstalled hard disks, CD-ROMs, magneto-optical cartridges, and
even floppies. Finding particular messages would take me many days, perhaps
weeks, of solid work...and still many messages would likely be gone
forever. I suppose I could put in the hours, for a quite reasonable
$2000/day consulting rate.
I expect, and was prepared to do so at the time, to give no interviews, no
backgrounders, and to answer no questions except in a courtroom, under
oath. Or, I suppose, in a grand jury room. Meaning, no "helpful"
backgrounders with BATFag staffers, WACO killer wonks, etc.
It would have been kind of fun giving them no advance interviews and then
answering the questions with "I have no independent recollection of that"
sorts of answers, which I expect would have comprised 90% of the answers
beyond the "who you are" preliminary questions.
All mooted by the fact that they never contacted me about my dialogues with
the "Entity who sometimes called itself Toto."
--Tim May
Don't tread on me.
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
"Cyphernomicon" | black markets, collapse of governments.
