[117106] in Cypherpunks
Re: Sanctions etc.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Petro)
Thu Aug 26 14:50:06 1999
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Date: Thu, 26 Aug 1999 11:21:18 -0700
To: cypherpunks@cyberpass.net
From: Petro <petro@suba.com>
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Reply-To: Petro <petro@suba.com>
>On 25 Aug 1999 at 22:15:27 +0300 (EEST),
>> Let's kill 1.7 million more women and children so that
>> your American cars will have even more oil to burn!
>
>If you're referring to Iraq, you're more than a bit
>confused. If I'm doing business with a friend and some
>shitlicker invades my friend's home and threatens not
>only our friendship but the business we're doing, you
>can bet I'll reserve the option to kick the living
>shit out of the invader and send him packing or to Hell.
The totally ignores the fact that your "friend" was getting
the shit kicked out of him because he was violating his neighbors
land, and stealing from his neighbor.
>If I send him packing, with bruises, and my containment
>policy to keep him from easily doing it again is met
>with obstinance and belligerence, that's too fucking
>bad for him.
It also makes you a disingenuous bully.
>
>In the end, _all_ people run the risk of paying the
>price for the acts and policies of the people they
>tolerate in positions of power. Dictatorships are no
>exception -- the leaders are still tolerated at the
>pleasure of the people. All people bear the
>responsibility for having the leaders they do. If
>that seems unfair to you, then cry your eyes out or
>put your head in a gas oven. It's reality.
So you really don't object to Bin Laudens actions against the
imperialist actions of the US?
>> Now please explain to me why is it that you think
>> you Americans should have the first-privilege of
>> possessing and burning of all the oil?
>
>We have no privilege. If we buy oil, where is the
>issue? I'm not aware that we've been invading and
>stealing oil at the point of a gun. You seem to have
Your lack of awareness doesn't change the facts. Who put the
Shah of Iran in the position of being able to sell us cheap oil in
the 60's and 70's while torturing many of his subjects who objected?
>your panties in a knot because not everyone else in
>the world can buy oil as "easily" as we can. Tough.
>Instead of whining, you should get busy helping those
>backward and constipated nations reform their
>inbred political systems and get their technology
Those inbred political systems sustained and corrupted by the CIA.
>
>You wouldn't understand that, though, because you are
>clearly (from your posts I've seen on their way to
>the bit bucket) an unreconstructed socialist who thinks
>the world is made up of zero-sum games in which
>government should step in to allocate shortages and
>misery. You are brain-fucked.
No, Our government should stop fucking with other people.
>> The point is that not everyone can live like you
>> do,
>
>That's up to them, not up to us. You're addressing
>the wrong audience. Instead of whining to us you
>should be castigating the dictators and tin horn
>tyrants of the world for restraining their people
>and economies for their own personal gain.
Who bombed the fuck out of Iraq? Who bombed the fuck out of
Kosovo? Who sent large numbers of barely trained fresh faced 18 year
old into Korea to preserve the free flow of platinum (or was in
plutonium?).
Face it pal, your "Leaders" in D.C. are yanking you around
like a fucking puppet, all the while trampling the rights of the rest
of the world underfoot like so many blades of grass.
>
>> and you are condoning the murder, killing and
>> starvation of non-American people to support your
>> energy-wasting luxury lifestyle.
>
>Not at all. But I'll happily condone retaliation
>against others when they have initiated the use of
>force that affects me or my friends and allies.
"Allies"?
Do you know that Chatel Slavery is still LEGAL and PRACTISED
in that little pissant country we were "defending"?
That the reason Hussien was Ticked Off at them was that they
were drilling slantwise into HIS oil fields?
That Bush, through one of his Consulates let Hussien know
that we wouldn't object if he took those pumps, and the rest of the
oil fields by force, but he went a little too far, so we had to go
"bomb him back to the stone age".
Fucking hypocrite.
>When civilians of such aggressive regimes suffer,
>that is just too fucking bad. See the principle
>enunciated above about responsibility.
So when Bin Lauden Nukes NY City, since they are just
civilians of one of the most aggressive regimes currently on this
planet, it's Ok? You won't mind?
>> You accept the killing of 1.7 million women and
>> children to get that oil. You are willing to
>> lubricate your cars with the blood of 1.7 million
>> dead Iraqi women and children.
>
>You are writing as if the U.S. were storming into Iraq
>and shooting our way to the oil wells. That is hardly
>what is going on. We're not taking any oil from Iraq.
>On the contrary, we are encouraging Iraq to leave its
>oil in the ground for the future, a very responsible,
>conservationist position, in my opinion. We are doing
Your opinion is stupid.
An intelligent "conservationist" position would be to INVEST
HEAVILY in alternative energy sources, to ignore "less polluting" and
"more efficient" petroleum based energy schemes in favor of more
renewable schemes that may not pollute at all, or pollute
significantly less.
Of course, that might mean a change in the status quo, which
would be unacceptable.
>that because Hussein seems to do such silly and
>dangerous things with the revenue when he sells the
>oil.
Like feed at least SOME of his people? Like buy medicine?
>
>The blood of Iraqis, though, makes very poor lubricant
>for machinery. I'll happily see another 1.7 million of
>them die, though, if that's what it takes to get them
>to stay the fuck inside their own borders and stay the
>fuck out of countries friendly to me.
When are you going to ask YOUR government to do the same?
>> Your message reflects your American school-bred
>> values so clearly. Let everyone starve as long
>> as you Americans get to live in luxury.
>
>We are the most generous people on the face of the
>planet. You're smoking some really bad socialist
It's easy to be generous when you have more THAN ANYONE ELSE.
When you have about twice as much as you *need* to live, it's
easy to give 10%. When you are about starving, it's a lot tougher.
And no, I am not saying we should give away what we have just
because they don't. I AM say that we didn't get it by playing fair,
by following our own rules or anyone elses. Our government has been
first class thieves and hoods.
>
>Truthmonger
Lying sack of shit.
--
Interfaces matter. You need mathematical bones; engineering muscle;
but you won't replicate without beautiful skin. Bits, transistors,
wires, code, gummint velveeta is free. Will is expensive. Gutenburg.
Smith. Ford. Moore. Postel. Steam engines were neat. Steam
engines pulling trains were amazing. Computers were neat. Computers
networked were amazing. Warning grunts are useful. The ability of a
charistmatic speaker to fuck with your head is disastrous.--Blank
Frank(anonymously)
