[9811] in Commercialization & Privatization of the Internet
Re: Spook's Backers: Mead Data, PRC, WAIS, Japanese, Etc.?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Glenn S. Tenney)
Fri Jan 21 19:41:15 1994
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 16:40:14 -0800
To: rothman@netcom.com
From: tenney@netcom.com (Glenn S. Tenney)
Cc: com-priv@psi.com, steeler@well.sf.ca.us, cosndisc@bitnic.BITNET,
At 1:46 PM 1/21/94 -0400, David Rothman wrote:
>BTW, did you get any fees or expenses from Bob? How much in either
>category? Who's your employer? Job title? Main clients?
Although its none of your business who my clients are, yes when I'm
speaking I do expect to have my travel expenses paid. No, Bob is not a
client of mine, never has been, nor have I ever had a security clearance...
etc. etc. The only money I recall ever receiving from the govt has been a
tax refund check from the IRS -- and that was ages ago... :-(
How about you? Who are your clients for the last 25 years? Are you now
or have you ever been... Do you start to get the message about how you are
sounding? This is utterly repulsive behaviour on your part.
>Face it, Glenn: This man does seem to have a few industry ties that
>could influence his priorities. In his original post he might have done
>well to have noted not just his intelligence connections but also his
>industry ties. Mead Data has many wonderful qualities, but I highly
>doubt that folks like this are on the cutting edge of making
>information affordable to the masses.
As it happens, Mead was the sponsor of the panel I was on at the last OSS
conference. I thought they might want to lynch me since I was suggesting
(among other things) that government data must be available free on-line
and that it is ridiculous for the govt to pay over and over again for
on-line data -- they should have a "site" license so that they can download
things once and forward it around electronically as needed. In part, I
was there I'd guess BECAUSE I had a contrary view. Does that somehow
color me? Are you going to label me guilty because of my having been on
a panel hosted by Mead? Well, you shouldn't.
I'm curious, have you ever taken the same flame-war stance on other groups
who receive money from people like Mead, the Telcos, etc. etc. Just
because the EFF receives funding from some of "those" groups does NOT mean
that the EFF necessarily takes the view of those groups. Each situation
needs to be considered on its own merit. And that merit can only be
gleaned by reading what they have to say and watching what they do. Bob
and his OSS may be great, or it may be full of hot air, or it may even be
awful -- but you have nothing to base anything on right now except your own
preconceived notion of such things.
>"...he remains a Reserve officer-instructor at the Marine Corpos
>Command & Staff College, with full clearances."
So. What's your point? Are you infering that "once in the intel
community always a bad guy"? Sure, you may be right about some people
but you should get the information BEFORE making up your mind.
>BTW, while we're on the subject of backers, I find it fascinating that
>the Japanese are involved. Here Bob is supposed to be obsessed with
>national competitiveness.
If you had taken the time to READ some of the related materials, you'd see
that the concept of using open sources should apply to other countries as
well. What's so "fascinating" about that? Or do you see some spook
hiding behind every door? You make it seem sinister that Bob's got the
Japanese involved. At the last OSS conference, he also had some former KGB
people speaking -- is that sinister? Then, how about the people he got
to attend and talk for many other countries...? If anything, I think
it's admirable to get people from around the world to talk about using and
releasing open sources.
>Best way to "compete" isn't through silly, spy-based schemes. It's to be
>adult and cough up money for *public* libraries and schools and lean on
>them to be more innovative. See the January issue of Money magazine to
>learn of the blessing that Prop 13 has offered California. ;-)
Hell, I *LIVE* here and have suffered through Prop 13 -- ! ! ! But you
go on and on to excess that this is the ONLY way to compete. Things are
NOT that simple. There are MANY things we need to do -- and quickly!
Dramatically improving our educational system is definitely near the top,
but you can't teach people who are dying from starvation or bullets.
>Major backers this year: O'Reilly & Associates and Prima (another
>publisher). I'll be doing three books to help stock the "information
>commons." The ORA book will contain some terrific great activism tips
> ...
If this flame war of yours is any indication of your "terrific activism
tips", maybe ORA should reconsider how much editing will be needed to get
your book out...
>>Since Bob's OSS is a non-profit corporation, I believe the books ARE open.
>>I know that he has posted financials on the bulletin board at his
>>conference.
>
>Terrific. Let's see them here. And why hasn't he included them with the
>posts I've received so far?
Why should he? How many non-profits post their books even as an email
response? Have you ever asked EFF or ORA or Prima for the same
information? Have you disclosed the same information?
>*If* memory services, you yourself requested a copy of teleread.txt.
Yes, I read things before flaming... What an interesting concept...
> But, do you think it really appropriate to
>>raise this relative to this? Couldn't we start challenging YOUR motives
>>for raising Teleread?
>
>No CIA background or rich government contractors involved, thank you.
Ahhh, just because CIA/govt contractors are the devil incarnate to you does
not mean that your backers/motives are not perceived as evil to others.
All in all David, this display of your behavior has been most enlightening
-- distasteful, but enlightening... about you.
---
Glenn Tenney
tenney@netcom.com Amateur radio: AA6ER
(415) 574-3420 Fax: (415) 574-0546
