[9423] in Commercialization & Privatization of the Internet
Re: Aikens last (but long) posting/comments on ISOC and related issues
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Einar Stefferud)
Wed Jan 5 05:14:51 1994
To: com-priv@psi.com, ietf@cnri.reston.va.us, isoc-trustees@cnri.reston.va.us
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 05 Jan 1994 01:11:41 EST."
Reply-To: Stef=ietf@nma.com
From: Einar Stefferud <Stef=ietf@nma.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Jan 1994 00:08:24 -0800
Hello Noel, et al...
I trust you do not mean to trivialize what I am pointing out...
There has to be a lot more than "good character" and "good will" and
"better instincts" and "intrinsic good natures" and "individual
character" behind the proper functioning of The Internet for it to have
grown so fast, drawing in such huge numbers of new participants, some
of whom have suffered serious culture shock from their first IETF
meeting. Or from their first WG EMail discussion thread. It is more
than just good fellowship that converts them into productive
participants in The Work Of The Internet.
It is impossible for us to now have 20 million users without that user
population beginning to pretty much look like the rest of the
population, scum bags and all... (just to make a visceral point;-).
With 20+ thousand networks, do you really think they are all
administered by people of "good character" and "good will" and "better
instincts" and "intrinsic good natures" and "individual character"?
Of course not! There has to be something else drawing these people
and networks into our beloved Internet, and I will bet that when we
find it (if anybody ever does) it will not be found to be just "good
fellowship". Not that I don't appreciate good fellowship!
So, the real motive in my challenge is to set people to thinking about
what might be involved in giving The Internet such a gravitational
pull as to draw all this together with such an interesting array of
collaborative interworkings.
Clearly something new and different is happening here, and I think it
would be really interesting to know what the centripetal force looks
like.
I certainly do not want to ignore this question, and trust to luck
that we know what the glue is made of, without any inquiry.
Cheers...\Stef
>From Noel Chiappa's message Wed, 5 Jan 94 01:11:41 -0500:
}
} If the good will of the IETF/IAB/ISOC participants is the only thing
} holding the Internet together, it will surely fall apart one day.
} ... good will ... is not going to save the Internet if one day the real
} (non-goodwill) glue that holds it together comes unstuck.
}
}Depending on what exactly you mean by "good will", I may or may not be in
}agreement with this position.
}
}Let me just say briefly ("Yah, Right", I can hear you all think :-) that my
}notions of the importance of individual character in the functioning of the
}IETF (and the Internet as a whole) aren't naive gooody-goodyism. I spend a lot
}of my time studying history, and as the line goes, "history is nothing more
}than a retelling of the follies and crimes of mankind". If I tenaciously hold
}on to certain "old-fashioned" virtues and ideals, it is because I have *seen*
}what happens to societies and civilizations which ignore them.
}
}I suspect that we may not in actually in disagreement here. If you mean by
}"good will" something like "people's basic good nature", I agree with you. I
}too think appealing to people's "better instincts" is doomed, since I don't
}think people have intrinsic good natures. However, long-term self-interest
}can, I believe, cause people to act in ways that look like "good will".
}
}I don't want to get sidetracked into a long philosophical/historical debate
}here (some of us would enjoy it, but I suspect most would be bored :-), but my
}thinking is that it is in everyone's long-term self interest to act with
}character and "good will". It is also my thinking that there is no way to
}design an organizational system which will continue to work when the players
}in it no longer exhibit that elusive quality called "character". So, I reckon
}"good will" will always be a necessary component of success. In that way I
}disagree with you.....
}
}And now, back to our debate on the proper role for the ISOC!
}
} Noel
}
