[55] in Athena User Interface
Re: sawfish configuration
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Bill Cattey)
Thu May 18 18:53:55 2000
Message-ID: <ot97FyQGgE6e0rwZE0@mit.edu>
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 18:53:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Bill Cattey <wdc@MIT.EDU>
To: mjs@eazel.com, danw@helixcode.com, Brad Thompson <yak@MIT.EDU>
CC: aui@MIT.EDU
In-Reply-To: <200005181720.NAA23568@snow-goon.mit.edu>
This is long, but I'm responding to about 10 messages that have come
thus far.
On the subject of themes:
How much work is it to add Athena to the default sawfish theme?
Or is the default sawfish theme too gawdy and slow to function on
a 175MHz SPARC 5?
----
On the subject of resize or move by dragging the edge of a window:
Regrettably, I think we should make our first priority to do what
the Mac and Windows do with the edges. Right now usability is
NOT about what we think is correct. It is about what brain-damage
has been programmed into most of our user base.
I myself like how I see a little arrow and vertical line cursor when I move
into the edge of the window to remind me I'm resizing width or height, and
a little arrow into angle cursor when I go to the corners. (I use fvwm).
But this is my own personal experience, and as others have said, it's wrong
to generalize from personal preferences.
----
On the subject of kill and menus:
I find myself very much in agreement with danw and mjs.
Excerpts from mail: 18-May-100 Re: sawfish configuration Maciej
Stachowiak@eazel. (2787*)
> Consider also the fact that destroy-type operations (the equivalent of
> XKillClient()) are evil anyway. Maybe it is a good thing not to make it
> easily accessible from the UI, since it is primarily a way for users to
hurt themselves.
I'm very relieved the design has moved away from having kill window be
a command that one can get by a single modifier and click. Sometimes
users "sneeze" and click random things. Having windows die when that
happens is not good. Clicking on the kill Icon is ok. Modifier/Click
with no menu is BAD. I get bit by Enlightenment's stupid default of
right-click and go as destroy window far too often. (Part of this is
due to fvwm getting me used to lowering the window on a right click, but
Enlightenment's GUI not making it easy to set that up for myself.)
Excerpts from mail: 18-May-100 Re: sawfish configuration Brad
Thompson@MIT.EDU (5426)
> I don't think that hitting close when you mean maximize is a serious problem.
I strongly disagree. It happens to me all the time when I have to
suffer the unpleasantness of using Windows. It's the first and biggest
example I give
of Microsoft creating actively hostile user interfaces. PLEASE PLEASE
PLEASE follow the Mac example and move the Kill switch AWAY.
Excerpts from mail: 18-May-100 Re: sawfish configuration Brad
Thompson@MIT.EDU (5426)
> My intent was to make it obvious how to do all of the operations the
> users would go to the menu for. If you can send a window to the taskbar
> by clicking an obvious icon, then you don't need a menu item for it.
This is a good intention. But I strongly advocate a less pure, but more
pragmatic approach. Icons are not obvious to everyone. I would say that
good usability comes from having several (not too many, and not too few)
ways of approaching getting the job done. I've played with a lot of window
managers, and built a lot of user interfaces. I always put in direct
manipulation, keyboard accelerators, and menus. Interestingly, I always
finding myself using ALL THREE, and I'm in the dictionary under Power User.
Excerpts from mail: 18-May-100 Re: sawfish configuration Richard
Tibbetts@MIT.EDU (2178)
> I think that we should have a menu with less used options available on
every window.
Agreed. for reasons I stated above.
Bottom line:
DO continue to figure the easiest way to do the Athena theme.
DONT eliminate the window menu.
DONT place the kill button next to something people use a lot.
DO edge and corner manipulations the way Windows does. :-(
The overarching principle is to maximize the stuff that is where users
reach for it, and to minimize the stuff that gets in the way of the
users when they reach for something else.
-wdc
