[2271] in athena10
Re: [Debathena] #137: system-wide bash_login and login should not
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Debathena Trac)
Tue Apr 14 17:57:22 2009
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From: "Debathena Trac" <debathena@MIT.EDU>
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To: jdreed@mit.edu, broder@mit.edu, andersk@mit.edu
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 21:56:50 -0000
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#137: system-wide bash_login and login should not unconditionally punt zwgc on
dialups---------------------+------------------------------------------------------
Reporter: jdreed | Owner: broder
Type: defect | Status: reopened
Priority: major | Component: --
Resolution: | Keywords: proposed
---------------------+------------------------------------------------------Changes (by andersk):
* status: closed => reopened
* resolution: fixed =>
Comment:
We were also planning to entirely replace the /etc/athena/dialuptype check
with a check whether this is a graphical local login.
Here is the full zlog:
{{{
debathena / dotfiles / nelhage 23:08
Because the Linerva maintainers decided it was silly to run zhm on
Linerva by default
debathena / dotfiles / nelhage 23:09
Since it's not what most users want.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:12
zhm? You mean zwgc, right? And no, it does not.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:13
zhm is a single global daemon run at startup; that has nothing to do
with dotfiles.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:13
Nelson said zhm when he meant zwgc.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:13
Ah. Good, I think we’re all less confused now.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:15
It should probably conditionalize on whether the session is
graphical, instead.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:15
zwgc does that already unless you have the force ttymode option set.
If you really want to conditionalize, do so on whether you're
SSH-forwarding the X session
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:16
No. “Whether the session is graphical” != “Whether a DISPLAY exists”.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:16
Oh, you mean for local graphical logins. Sure.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:17
I run barnowl. I ssh -X linerva and run Matlab. Now I get zephyrs
in barnowl and in zwgc from Linerva.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:17
I run zwgc on a cluster machine. I ssh -X linerva. Now I get two
windowgrams per zgram.
debathena / dotfiles / xavid 23:18
I shouldn't have to never run zwgc on login to avoid running it twice
when I ssh into a dialup.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:18
This doesn't deal with the two-zwgcs case.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:19
Also, zwgc’s focus-stealing prevention doesn’t work over X
forwarding, which makes it even more obnoxious.
debathena / dotfiles / xavid 23:19
Most users are only likely to ssh into a dialup with X forwarding from
another athena machine, which means they'll probably already have zwgc
if they want it on their local machine, and don't need a second
instance.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:20
We could hack zwgc to do the firefox-remote thing of figuring out if
a zwgc is already running on this display, and tell VT or barnowl
users to set ZEPHYR_CLIENT to /bin/false if they want zero zwgcs
instead of one.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:23
Like I said, I agree that the exact test it currently uses is a
little wrong (whether this is a non-dialup machine), but it is almost
always equivalent in practice to what I think is the right one
(whether this is a local graphical login).
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:25
Maybe we want to conditionalize on (local graphical login) || (zctl
show fallback | grep true)
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:26
And maybe we want /etc/X11/Xsession.d/95zwgc for the first one.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:26
Do you know of anyone that actually expects and wants to get an
automatic X11 zwgc over a remote ssh session? That seems really
strange to me.
debathena / dotfiles / kaduk 23:28
I expect to get such a zwgc.
debathena / dotfiles / nelhage 23:28
<stark> whoops, braino. Sorry :)
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:28
Really. How can you possibly stand that? :-)
debathena / dotfiles / mitchb 23:28
I used to before switching to vt.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:29
Y'all are all talking about graphical, not ttymode, right?
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:29
Wait, what? I asked about _over a remote ssh session_.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:29
Sorry, I guess I use graphical to mean "in windowgrams" and you use
it to mean "from GDM".
debathena / dotfiles / kaduk 23:30
I log into an athena 9 machine (say, lsc-office).
I ssh into multics.
I expect to get windowgrams from multics.
debathena / dotfiles / kaduk 23:30
Er, I log into lsc-office sitting in front of it, through GDM.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:30
So now you get two windowgrams of every zephyr?
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:30
Would the firefoxish behavior I suggested suffice?
debathena / dotfiles / kaduk 23:30
Yes.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:31
geofft: I’m just trying to figure out what the expected use case is
before we propose solutions.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:31
I understand that you may have come to expect that, but how can that
possibly be _desirable_?
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:33
Er, that doesn't actually seem to jive with your use case of multiple
graphical zwgcs.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:34
er, sorry, "X11 zwgcs"
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:34
... Oh, it does.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:35
Okay. sure. If they have actually taken action to set fallback=true,
then I’m fine with sending back a bunch of obnoxious windows in
reward.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:39
For what it's worth, I still believe all of -c filsrv should be in
the default subscriptions.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:39
Apart from the Sunday morning ones, it gets less than a zephyr a
month, in my experience.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:39
OK
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 23:41
I think it's also relevant that no automounter can get you subbed to
zephyr classes.
(At least without horrifying kernel hacks)
debathena / dotfiles / ghudson 23:43
I don't see why the machine being a dialup has any bearing on this.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:44
See, you’re framing the Athena 9 behavior that forces weird zwgc
popups on unsuspecting frosh by default as “not telling people how to
use ssh X11 sessions”. I don’t buy that at all.
debathena / dotfiles / ghudson 23:45
I thought it was kind of our job to decide default behaviors.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:45
If we don’t run it by default, you can always run it yourself, or we
can provde an option to turn it on; nobody forced you to do anything.
debathena / dotfiles / andersk 23:58
I’m confused now. Isn’t that what you said you don’t want?
Either way, it seems to me that the bash and tcsh dotfiles are not
even the right place to start the graphical zephyr client at all.
debathena / dotfiles / geofft 00:00
> parsing zephyr.vars
What's wrong with "zctl show"?
debathena / dotfiles / ghudson 00:36
XSESSION will never be set for the tty startup dotfiles anyway.
}}}
-- Ticket URL: <http://debathena.mit.edu/~debathena/trac/trac.fcgi/ticket/137#comment:5>Debathena <http://debathena.mit.edu/>MIT Debian-Athena Project
