[919] in libertarians
Re: Militias
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (sethf@MIT.EDU)
Mon Apr 24 07:24:44 1995
From: sethf@MIT.EDU
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 07:23:54 -0400
To: libertarians@MIT.EDU
I knew I was going to get one of these replies. The other kind
is "I'm a gay prostitute pothead, and I'm the NRA!". Look, I did not say
"All people who support gun rights are militia members/right wing wackos".
That's the inversion of my point. My contention is that "A
large portion of these militia people ARE ultra right-wing wackos". And,
related point, the militia movement is grounded in a historical US
right-wing politics that has nothing at all to do with Libertarianism.
They just overlap rhetorically on topics such as guns and liberals.
What would you accept as backing this up? Chip Berlet's research
reports (probably ruled out because he's on the left ...)? We've just
ruled out netnews posting, because any article can be invalidated as a
dirty-trick by opponents. And of course any news report is out, because
that's the "liberal media". I've got a feeling I would never be able to
establish anything to your satisfaction, unless the commanders suddenly
start wearing sheets (even then, you'd probably say he's just drying laundry).
Look at what they flame about - how many times is the BATF
mentioned, as opposed to the DEA, which is FAR more dangerous? How much
talk is there of actual unit discipline, as opposed to what are good
guns? Do they debate any of the multitude of questions having to do with
the incredibly momentous step of armed rebellion? There's revolution,
and revolution-wannabes. These people are wannabes, fueled by myth and
fantasy. It's mostly a far right-wing political society, not any sort of
defense group.
They aren't Libertarians at all. Once again, for tediums sake,
this does not mean that a Libertarian cannot be found in a militia. Many
such are probably attracted by common views on guns and liberals. But
where Libertarianism and the right-wing disagree, expect to find the
former ignored or actively reviled. How many militia groups have
declared their intentions to protect the peaceful marijuana farmers from
proclaimed illegal, unConstitutional, Federal attacks on their land and
property?
> Liberals hate guns, and they'll use any form of propaganda to accomplish
> their gun-banning agenda. Witness Randy Weaver. Did Randy Weaver go
And I suppose they hate the Internet, they'll use any form of
propaganda to accomplish their Internet-banning agenda. It's
sensationalism, not a plan. And people who push this line tend to forget
how the armed left was treated, when it existed. The one modern group
that actually did the sort of thing with guns and self-defense that the
paranoids run apocalyptic fantasies about was the Black Panther party,
and we see how much they are held up as an example and case study.
No, ALL the incidents used in propaganda are about people who
are conservative, white, and cultists or survivalists. That tells me a
lot in and of itself. When's the last time you heard anyone throw up the
MOVE Philadelphia bombing as an example of a government atrocity? The one
exception to this rule is when someone makes an abstract statement like
"gun control is racist" and refers to the Civil War, something safely
in the past. They significantly don't talk about anything of the sort
that happened in modern times. Kind of interesting, again, because of
some of the examples you'd think would be used otherwise.
The reply is exactly what I'm talking about. I write that the
Militia movement isn't your friend, it just overlaps a bit, and get back
a response that, though it makes some points, again goes down the path
of "Guns! Liberals! Federal Government!" I think it supports my point
that that's what's fueling this politics, NOTHING ELSE.
================
Seth Finkelstein
sethf@mit.edu
