[11398] in Commercialization & Privatization of the Internet
re: Some simple questions (& will Mr. Anonymous please step forward)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Anonymous)
Thu Mar 31 10:57:13 1994
Date: Wed, 30 Mar 94 21:18:24 -0500
From: Anonymous <nowhere@bsu-cs.bsu.edu>
To: com-priv@psi.com
Simon Poole <poole@magnolia.eunet.ch> writes:
>> comments, does it matter who made them? If you knew my name, you wouldn't
>> recognize it and it wouldn't give you any other information which would
>> impact at all on the comments I've made. What difference does it make??>
>
>You would be perhaps less obnoxious in your letters?
>
>Simon Poole
Perhaps, but I guess I view the current method of the CIX (intentional or
not) of intimidating people into joining for fear of getting cut off as
rather obnoxious (especially when it isn't explicitly stated but often left
as an implied threat, heard and read from multiple people), and I'm sorry
if I'm expressing my feelings strongly, however I hope logically.
>Just consider investments a large ISP has made, infrastructure that has
>been built (how many transatlantic and international lines does -your-
>company pay?).
This is why we pay another company for our pipe. It makes sense for us to
pay whatever level of backbone we connect to, or multiple backbones if we
wished greated connectivity. The basic point is if we connect to one
backbone, why should we need to pay another? We pay the larger one we
connect to to connect to other nets. Why should CIX try to get in and scam
money from ISPs on other backbones? (As I mentioned before when CIX acts as
a backbone, if someone actually connects to it it makes sense for them to
pay CIX for that. However why is CIX privledged over other backbones?) As I
mentioned elsewhere, what if other CIX groups start forming, are they all
going to attempt to extort money? The investment in infrastructure, etc.,
needs to be payed for, but this fashion isn't a logical way to do it. CIX
ISPs pay for their pipe and the CIX connection to other pipes. We pay for
our pipe, and our payment helps fund the infrastructure of the provider we
connect to, along with all its other customers.
You buy a pipe from whoever is willing to sell it, choosing that pipe for
the best cost/benefit ratio in terms of the speed, load, etc. of the
connections that provider has to backbones, other ISPs, etc. If someplace
builds a T3 backbone, people will pay more to connect to that than to a
shared T1 hung off that T3. When 2 T3 networks connect, or 2 T1s, etc., its
between the two of them what is charged for the connection, not some 3rd
party elsewhere. We shouldn't need to work out individual deals with other
ISPs for routing, etc., we should basically be paying for the pipe, and
trusting that distributively people will make the rational decision to
route all of *their* customers traffice (which would then include our
customers as well). Perhaps some group could start up to collect agreements
that people will route any traffic that shows up, if thats of real concern
to people, without all the baggage of the CIX, and let people worry about
buying pipes.
>This has -nothing- to do if anybody intends to cut you off or not, getting
>agreements from your business partners is simply the reasonable thing to
>do (not even thinking about the legal ramifications). As has already been
>said numerous times, you can go out and try to obtain seperate agreements
>from all the interesing ISP's, or you can join the CIX.
Why should we need to, we purchase the pipe elsewhere. If it were a matter
of agreements, since each ISP joining pays the CIX, the cost should be more
like $100 at most one time for the paperwork rather than $10,000/yr.
However the whole model doesn't make sense, we buy from a reseller who
connects to the other networks. Whoever they connect to should agree to
route traffic that comes through that pipe. They shouldn't care where it
came from, otherwise everyone starts trying to double dip and charge
customers of other providers. The only agreement required should be between
a reseller and whoever they buy a pipe from. Why should we need seperate
agreements with all the other resellers, especially if we buy from a CIX
member? Shouldn't the network agreements be worked in a hierarchical,
distributed fashion?
