[11200] in Commercialization & Privatization of the Internet
Re: Universities (was: What is an "Internet reseller"?)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Glenn S. Tenney)
Thu Mar 24 22:24:48 1994
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 1994 21:37:51 -0800
To: com-priv@psi.com
From: tenney@netcom.com (Glenn S. Tenney)
At 9:58 PM 3/23/94 -0600, Karl Denninger wrote:
>Nope. The IP space which is being routed there belongs to the University.
>They are not engaged in the business of selling that space nor the access.
>This is exactly the same situation you have with a large corporation that
>happens to have 1,000 employees -- and a Sun on every desk.
> ...
>Because they're not selling the services to others (engaged in the practice
>of IP packet resale).
Wrong. Many universities DO have a charge to students for using their
computers, and many universities either require or allow students to bring
in and use their own computers.
You previously said:
>I, and others, have construed the agreement to say that "customer" is more
>than a sham arrangement where you hand money from one place to another. It
>involves the provision of some kind of service as is generally accepted in
>the industry.
and...
>You didn't source the packets. Your customers did. That still loses in my
>interpretation, and I suspect that of many other CIX members (but I don't
>presume to speak for them).
and...
> ... arrangements where someone sources packets from
>their system, through a direct customer of a CIX member, to the Internet.
>That is commonly called a "backdoor link" or an "indirect customer" in the
>industry.
In every sense of the word, you have consistently been defining a
university --- they have a router; the packets are not originated by them
or their employees only; they charge for the service. In your words, then
most universities would be IP resellers.
You conveniently take everything you've said before about any co-op or
commercial venture and then say that it doesn't apply to universities. You
are attempting to distort the "rules" you've stated to suit a situation
that you think shouldn't apply, and then distort them in the other
direction to suit a situation that you think should apply.
Please do understand that I think a university should not be considered an
IP resellet and have to join the CIX, nor a free net, nor a co-op (such as
a group in a metropolitan area or a group with offices in one building --
it is not uncommon for folks renting offices in the same building to chip
in ala co-op for a router and a net connection).
I suggest, Karl, that since you appear to be the ONLY one with these views,
and you don't speak for the CIX, we should just:
(a) agree everyone disagrees with you,
(b) no other CIX member agrees with you since they have yet to be heard from,
(c) the CIX itself must not agree with you since no board member or officer
has responded, and
(d) wait for someone to make a stink about something that's being done all
over the world with no one complaining,
and get com-priv back to other discussions...
---
Glenn Tenney
tenney@netcom.com Amateur radio: AA6ER
(415) 574-3420 Fax: (415) 574-0546
