[9461] in bugtraq
Re: ISS Internet Scanner Cannot be relied upon for conclusive
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (David LeBlanc)
Thu Feb 11 11:10:00 1999
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1999 11:22:24 -0500
Reply-To: David LeBlanc <dleblanc@MINDSPRING.COM>
From: David LeBlanc <dleblanc@MINDSPRING.COM>
X-To: l41484@alfa.ist.utl.pt
To: BUGTRAQ@NETSPACE.ORG
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990208191353.22005B-100000@cavorka>
At 07:15 PM 2/8/99 +0100, l41484@alfa.ist.utl.pt wrote:
>While i've never used the product, it seems to me, that from the quote,
>the product is giving misleading information. Since (from what i've seen)
>the product hasn't been able to determine if the router in question is
>vulnerable or not, it shouldn't report that it's safe. It should report,
>that vulnerability is unknown, which is a lot different than safe.
That's a misunderstanding. You can get false negatives for a large number
of often unpreventable reasons. Basically, you can assume that if we
report it as vulnerable, then it _is_ vulnerable (barring false positive
bugs). If we do not report it as vulnerable, then it may not be
vulnerable. As I'm sure anyone writing code in this area can confirm, this
is a really tough problem - the huge number of implementations of various
services, network mayhem, etc makes perfection very elusive. This is why
we _don't_ tell you the box is safe - we just tell you what we can find
that tells us it _isn't_. Kind of like how you can prove a crypto
algorithm is broken, but you can't prove it isn't.
One example of just how hard all of this is came to my attention yesterday
- we scanned an HP box running the AT&T port of the NT services. The
$%#@!! thing _looked_ almost exactly like an NT box, down to giving up the
users, and reporting running services. So we go thinking it _is_ an NT
box, and then the lack of certain registry keys would imply a vulnerability
on an NT machine, so we get false positives...
You run into the same sort of logic when doing a UDP port scan - you can't
tell conclusively if the port is listening, just that it isn't. You'll
sometimes get cases where you think there is something there, and it isn't.
David LeBlanc
dleblanc@mindspring.com
