[752] in resnet
Re: Problems with Windows 2000 DHCP server Leases.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Eric Rosenberry)
Fri Feb 1 14:25:23 2002
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Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:08:42 -0800
Reply-To: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu>
From: Eric Rosenberry <eric@ROSENBERRY.ORG>
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
In-Reply-To: <1025EE3A9FF4D411BA360060CF202615699931@yorktown.msoe.edu>
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I would have to agree with this analysis. I have spent a LOT of time
working with DHCP servers and DNS servers and what it comes down to is
that for small windows only networks, I would use Microsoft=92s DHCP and
DNS servers. But when it comes to larger networks (in a university
environment especially) I would use ISC=92s (Internet Software =
Consortium)
DHCPD and NAMED (the standard ones with Linux and BSD and most unixes).
The biggest key to using the non-ms ones is that you can configure them
with a text file which is much easier to automate.=20
=20
I personally like using DHCPD and NAMED on BSD since that is where they
were originally written and are currently maintained on (not that
running them on linux should be a problem).
=20
-Eric
-----Original Message-----
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu] On Behalf Of
Wardius, Martin
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:03 AM
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Re: Problems with Windows 2000 DHCP server Leases.
=20
Ronald,
=20
At MSOE, we decided that we would move away from the NT 4 DHCP/WINS this
year. After researching the alternatives, we decided the best solution
was to move to the Linux platform for DHCP.
=20
IMO, after NT 4 SP 4 Microsoft DHCP became less and less user friendly
and offered fewer and fewer options and became a great deal more
"buggy". OTOH, since we've gone to Linux (Slackware Distribution) we
have had ZERO problems. The only time we've re-booted this box was to
upgrade and recompile the kernal. If you keep Linux DNS, you would also
gain the ability to give every user a FQDN. Our residents have been very
happy with this as now they have absolutely no problems pulling files
from the box in their rooms while working on projects in labs.
=20
The box was originally built (by two of my sophmore techs) on a P-166
w/128mb RAM. We have since acquired a P-III/550mhz w/256mb RAM and
migrated to this box during the last kernal upgrade. We have experienced
none of the problems you describe, though we did when using M$ DHCP.
Doing this shouldn't intefere with migration to M$ 2K Domain model (if
that's the firm decision of the powers that be). Our environment is a
mixture of M$ Domains, Novell, Unix and Linux, with Win 2K being the
primary user OS.
=20
You could hardly consider me a Microsoft basher, but I do believe in
using the best tool for the job at hand. YMMV
=20
Marty Wardius
ResNet Manager
Milwaukee School of Engineering
wardius@msoe.edu
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Ronald R. Gilmore [mailto:gilmorrr@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu]
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 1:47 PM
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
Subject: Problems with Windows 2000 DHCP server Leases.
At Oneonta State we have started the migration into the Microsoft 2000
domain world. Our first phase of this project was to upgrade our
existing NT4 - DHCP/WINS and LINUX based DNS to a Windows 2000 network
structure. We have hit a few snags with the 2000 DHCP server, and =
that=92s
why I=92m here. Here=92s what we had and what we moved to. In our old
Network environment we had 16 different subnets on 16 VLANs, using a
Linux server(s) for our DNS and an NT 4 server our DHCP/WINS using VLAN
Tagging. We had a few DUP IP=92s back then but most we could track down =
to
a malfunctioning DHCP stack or where a static IP Address was
implemented. But for the most part no problems with this design.
Everything else worked like it should. =20
=20
After moving the NT4 Lease database to 2000=92s world we have had many =
IP
Conflicts. When they first started happening it seemed like it was
somewhat random as to what was going on, but after a few weeks of
tracking down the problem we have found what seems to be causing the
problem. The NT 4, 2000, and XP machines appear not to have the problem
but Mac=92s (by product of the win9x machines we believe), 95, 98 and =
98se
in particular are seeing the problem. =20
=20
When a 9x machine gets a DHCP lease from the server for the first time
both leases are in sync with the 2000 DHCP server. We did a manual
release/renew on the 9x machine and the time stayed in sync with the
DHCP server. Then we rebooted the 9x machine and noticed that the time
became out of sync with the server. So we put a sniffer on the 9x
machine and saw the machine issue a DHCP renew at boot that was a
broadcast style, but with no response from the server. The NT/XP based
machines do a directed broadcast for their renewal of the lease upon
boot. We then looked at the server and the leases were even more out of
sync. All the while on the client 9 x machines it kept reporting that it
had renewed its lease and put the time at which it had attempted to
renew in the leases field. The next step was to reboot the machine
without a network cable attached. The same thing happened a lease was
renewed and no server was contacted. I tried this with a 2000 and XP
machine and upon boot the IP protocol doesn=92t come up until you have a
Link State on the network card. After plugging it in to the wall the
adaptor got a lease and it was in sync with the DHCP server. What this
causes is that the more times the 9x machine reboots, or even worse are
overnight powered off, machines become vastly out of sync with the DHCP
server. After 7 days, which is our lease time here, the DHCP server
then removes the lease for the 9x machine and then assigns it to another
client. The 9x machine still thinks it has more time on its lease and
thus keeps the IP.=20
=20
We have tired the DHCP release on shutdown hack but it has a very nasty
side affect with the 2000 DHCP server. When the user powers the machine
on yes their IP is released but the machine still doesn=92t do a proper
renew upon boot, and the user is forced to do a manual renew, a real
problem here! Does anyone know of a fix for the 9x client, or is an
upgrade to the OS our only solution?
=20
We also have tried to use conflict detection on the DHCP server but this
doesn=92t work when the client is powered off over night.
=20
Just to clarify my mind this is how DHCP on a 9x client
SHOULD work. New computer on network and no previous leases in its DHCP
stack. Upon boot it gets a new address from the DHCP server and its
lease time. (Given in an offset from current time on each machine.) The
9x machine is rebooted and it SHOULD keep the same lease time in its
DHCP information until it reaches the =BD way point and then attempts a
lease renewal. At this time it does a directed DHCP renew to the server
listed in its DHCP information and thus extends its lease. Also when a
9x machine is booted without a network cable the DHCP stack should come
up with no lease or a Microsoft Automatic Private IP Addresses i.e. a
169.x.x.x number.
=20
=20
=20
=20
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I would have to agree with this
analysis.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 </span>I have spent a LOT =
of time
working with DHCP servers and DNS servers and what it comes down to is =
that for
small windows only networks, I would use Microsoft’s DHCP and DNS
servers.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 </span>But when it comes to =
larger
networks (in a university environment especially) I would use <span
class=3DSpellE>ISC’s</span> (Internet Software Consortium) DHCPD =
and NAMED
(the standard ones with Linux and BSD and most <span =
class=3DSpellE>unixes</span>).<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>=A0 </span>The biggest key to using the =
non-ms ones is
that you can configure them with a text file which is much easier to =
automate. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I personally like using DHCPD and =
NAMED on
BSD since that is where they were originally written and are currently
maintained on (not that running them on <span =
class=3DSpellE>linux</span> should
be a problem).<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-no-proof:yes'>-Eric</span></font>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Resnet Forum
[mailto:RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu] <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf
Of </span></b>Wardius, Martin<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February =
01, 2002
10:03 AM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: Problems =
with Windows
2000 DHCP server Leases.</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Ronald,</span></f=
ont><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>At MSOE, we =
decided that
we would move away from the NT 4 DHCP/WINS this year. After researching =
the
alternatives, we decided the best solution was to move to the Linux
platform for DHCP.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>IMO, after NT 4 =
SP
4 Microsoft DHCP became less and less user friendly and offered =
fewer and
fewer options and became a great deal more "buggy". OTOH, =
since we've
gone to Linux (Slackware Distribution) we have had ZERO problems. The =
only time
we've re-booted this box was to upgrade and recompile the kernal. If you =
keep
Linux DNS, you would also gain the ability to give every user a FQDN. =
Our
residents have been very happy with this as now they have absolutely no =
problems
pulling files from the box in their rooms while working on projects in =
labs.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>The box was =
originally
built (by two of my sophmore techs) on a P-166 w/128mb RAM. We have =
since
acquired a P-III/550mhz w/256mb RAM and migrated to this box during the =
last kernal
upgrade. We have experienced none of the problems you describe, though =
we did
when using M$ DHCP. Doing this shouldn't intefere with migration to M$ =
2K
Domain model (if that's the firm decision of the powers that be). Our
environment is a mixture of M$ Domains, Novell, Unix and Linux, with Win =
2K
being the primary user OS.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>You could hardly =
consider
me a Microsoft basher, but I do believe in using the best tool for the =
job at
hand. YMMV</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Marty =
Wardius</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>ResNet =
Manager</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>Milwaukee School =
of
Engineering</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'><a
href=3D"mailto:wardius@msoe.edu">wardius@msoe.edu</a></span></font><o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'=
>
<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Ronald R. Gilmore
[mailto:gilmorrr@snyoneva.cc.oneonta.edu]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, January =
31, 2002
1:47 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Problems with =
Windows
2000 DHCP server Leases.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>At =
Oneonta State we
have started the migration into the Microsoft 2000 domain world. Our =
first
phase of this project was to upgrade our existing NT4 - DHCP/WINS and =
LINUX
based DNS to a Windows 2000 network structure. We have hit a few snags =
with the
2000 DHCP server, and that’s why I’m here. Here’s what =
we had
and what we moved to. In our old Network environment we had 16 different
subnets on 16 VLANs, using a Linux server(s) for our DNS and an NT 4 =
server our
DHCP/WINS using VLAN Tagging. We had a few DUP IP’s back then but =
most we
could track down to a malfunctioning DHCP stack or where a static IP =
Address
was implemented. But for the most part no problems with this design. =
Everything
else worked like it should. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>After =
moving the
NT4 Lease database to 2000’s world we have had many IP Conflicts. =
When
they first started happening it seemed like it was somewhat random as to =
what
was going on, but after a few weeks of tracking down the problem we have =
found
what seems to be causing the problem. The NT 4, 2000, and XP machines =
appear
not to have the problem but Mac’s (by product of the win9x =
machines we
believe), 95, 98 and 98se in particular are seeing the problem. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>When a =
9x machine
gets a DHCP lease from the server for the first time both leases are in =
sync
with the 2000 DHCP server. We did a manual release/renew on the 9x =
machine and
the time stayed in sync with the DHCP server. Then we rebooted the 9x =
machine
and noticed that the time became out of sync with the server. So we put =
a
sniffer on the 9x machine and saw the machine issue a DHCP renew at boot =
that
was a broadcast style, but with no response from the server. The NT/XP =
based machines
do a directed broadcast for their renewal of the lease upon boot. We =
then
looked at the server and the leases were even more out of sync. All the =
while
on the client 9 x machines it kept reporting that it had renewed its =
lease and
put the time at which it had attempted to renew in the leases field. The =
next
step was to reboot the machine without a network cable attached. The =
same thing
happened a lease was renewed and no server was contacted. I tried this =
with a
2000 and XP machine and upon boot the IP protocol doesn’t come up =
until
you have a Link State on the network card. After plugging it in to the =
wall the
adaptor got a lease and it was in sync with the DHCP server. What this =
causes
is that the more times the 9x machine reboots, or even worse are =
overnight
powered off, machines become vastly out of sync with the DHCP =
server.
After 7 days, which is our lease time here, the DHCP server then removes =
the
lease for the 9x machine and then assigns it to another client. The 9x =
machine
still thinks it has more time on its lease and thus keeps the IP. =
</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We have =
tired the
DHCP release on shutdown hack but it has a very nasty side affect with =
the 2000
DHCP server. When the user powers the machine on yes their IP is =
released but
the machine still doesn’t do a proper renew upon boot, and the =
user is
forced to do a manual renew, a real problem here! Does anyone know of a =
fix for
the 9x client, or is an upgrade to the OS our only =
solution?</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D3
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-indent:.5in'><font =
size=3D2
face=3DArial><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>We also =
have tried
to use conflict detection on the DHCP server but this doesn’t work =
when
the client is powered off over night.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'> &nbs=
p;
Just to clarify my mind this is how DHCP on a 9x client <u>SHOULD</u> =
work. New
computer on network and no previous leases in its DHCP stack. Upon boot =
it gets
a new address from the DHCP server and its lease time. (Given in an =
offset from
current time on each machine.) The 9x machine is rebooted and it SHOULD =
keep
the same lease time in its DHCP information until it reaches the =BD way =
point
and then attempts a lease renewal. At this time it does a directed DHCP =
renew
to the server listed in its DHCP information and thus extends its lease. =
Also
when a 9x machine is booted without a network cable the DHCP stack =
should come
up with no lease or a Microsoft Automatic Private IP Addresses i.e. a =
169.x.x.x
number.</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</body>
</html>
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