[27621] in resnet
Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Brock, Adam)
Thu May 3 18:26:52 2012
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Message-ID: <C8B574F684FD134B924E723867DF15EC0831AB9F76@FS1.baylor.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2012 17:24:28 -0500
Reply-To: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu>
From: "Brock, Adam" <Adam_Brock@baylor.edu>
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
In-Reply-To: <D9D0C3D6A031FD41B81047D41FDC129D0BCD6FDEA5@DCEX07.bbbb.net>
--_000_C8B574F684FD134B924E723867DF15EC0831AB9F76FS1bayloredu_
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Here's mine.
Windows IP Configuration
Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : DILDOSAURUSREX
Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . :
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid
IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No
Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Networ=
k Connection
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-13-02-5E-15-69
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::1d46:5e2a:730e:d69f%11(Preferr=
ed)
IPv4 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.10(Preferred)
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, April 29, 2012 1:03:26 PM
Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Friday, May 04, 2012 1:03:29 PM
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.1
DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.1
DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 201331458
DHCPv6 Client DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-13-19-F4-D8-00-15-C5-BC-=
24-11
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled
Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:
Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom NetXtreme 57xx Gigabit Cont=
roller
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-B9-6A-21-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 9:
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
IPv6 Address. . . . . . . . . . . : 2001:0:4137:9e76:3491:1eee:b4be:61c5=
(Preferred)
Link-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::3491:1eee:b4be:61c5%22(Preferr=
ed)
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : ::
NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled
Tunnel adapter isatap.{2EA0A6F6-79DE-4D1A-A357-2B8710283CC5}:
Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter #2
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Ryan Dorm=
an
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:38 PM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: [RESNET-L] SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
Can you send the output of an ipconfig /all from a connected machine? If y=
ou want to send it off list I understand.
-rd
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:RESNET-=
L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]> On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:30 PM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
It's possible to have multiple subnets in a single VLAN. We have a few VLAN=
s here that have multiple /24s assigned to them.
Running out of addresses will likely manifest as machines sometimes getting=
an IP address and sometimes not, depending on your DHCP implementation and=
lease times. It will be fairly obvious, but only if you're already enterta=
ining that as an idea. Otherwise it sounds absolutely ludicrous.
-Chris
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Crowe, Sheila <sheila@montana.edu<mailto:sh=
eila@montana.edu>> wrote:
Based on the correct definition of /24, our subnets are not larger than 256=
IP addresses. Given that, I'm wondering how we were ever able to just use=
one subnet? We have well over than 300 devices connected at one time in a=
single subnet. Reckon they're counting on not everyone being connected at=
the same time, but that's pretty iffy in our larger dorms (~300 residents =
there). In Family Housing, at peak times of the year, we have more than 50=
0 users. Good Lord. If not enough IP space is the problem, I might open a=
vein. (My sense of humor is sometimes inappropriate).
Adam, these floods continue but are much fewer in number per day than they =
used to be. I don't have a record of a packet capture at hand (I will ask =
for one), but Central IT uses "Cacti monitoring of switch ports, with the T=
hreshold plugin configured to detect unicast packet rates well above normal=
on one (or more) interfaces." Central IT is triggering on one of our fiber=
uplinks when the unicast packet rate exceeds 50,000 packets/second. I get=
a report every time this happens...used to happen hundreds of times per da=
y is now down to about 1-2 per day since our network guy has begun configur=
ing those fiber ports with flood blocking.
~Sheila Crowe
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSER=
V.ND.EDU>] On Behalf Of Ryan Dorman
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 12:20 PM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
Yep, happy to help with staring at captures.. its far more interesting than=
"Strategy" whatever that means:)
As a general rule ( I say general I know there are exceptions, styles and o=
ther such that engineers use for IPAM) a /24 is the largest size network yo=
u should put end user PC's on. Especially given the chatty nature of Mac m=
ulticast/rendezvoux traffic, MS broadcast traffic etc etc it can result in =
a single packet being responded to by 100's of machines that it was not ult=
imately destined for....
-rd
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]<mailto:[mailto:RESNET-=
L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]> On Behalf Of Chris Webster
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:04 AM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
Packet captures are almost always useful in identifying problems that can't=
be explained simply based on the symptoms (which it's why it's one of the =
first things network people look for). I'm happy to take a look at any capt=
ures you have, with the caveat that the problem might be totally over my he=
ad.
/24 is CIDR notation meaning a block of 256 IP addresses. Wikipedia link is=
the best I can do right now... I'll see if I can come up with a better exp=
lanatory article later: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classless_Inter-Domain=
_Routing#IPv4_CIDR_blocks
-Chris
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Crowe, Sheila <sheila@montana.edu<mailto:sh=
eila@montana.edu>> wrote:
I'm sure that we have done packet captures, Adam...would it help to see tho=
se?
Ryan, I'm not sure what you mean by subnets bigger than "/24." (I'm gonna =
read the Eric Leahy paper at lunch). I'm learning a little about networkin=
g along the way, aren't I?
My plan for the responses from the RESNET-L is to combine the suggestions a=
nd questions and present them to the network guy for analysis and answers.
Keep them coming! And thank you very much for sharing your expertise with =
me.
Sheila Crowe
Montana State University
-----Original Message-----
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSER=
V.ND.EDU>] On Behalf Of Brock, Adam
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:24 PM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
Also, did anyone try getting a packet capture of the unicast traffic, or wa=
s that just a theory?
Sent from my Brockberry.
________________________________
From: Ryan Dorman <Ryan.Dorman@blackboard.com<mailto:Ryan.Dorman@blackboard=
.com>>
Sender: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.=
EDU>>
Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 21:33:01 -0500
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU><RESNET-L@LIST=
SERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>>
ReplyTo: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND=
.EDU>>
Subject: Re: [RESNET-L] SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
My questions, slightly re-phrased:
1. For those of you who have a similar network, do you utilize either=
Storm Control or flood blocking? Why do you use one rather than the other=
?
a. We used storm control in the dorms back in my day (ha ha ha)... it=
was one of our bandaid procedures for sasser/blaster (hence why I did not =
describe it as the good old days). It has advantage of dealing with multip=
le types of traffic, not just Unicast.
b. This is a good article explaining the differences http://ericleahy.=
com/?p=3D611
2. Do you use some other measure to deal with unicast packet floods?
a. No
3. Considering the physical environment (single wired jacks), what do=
you feel is best practice when it comes to stopping unicast packet floods?
a. There are a couple things I would look at here more from a design =
perspective then a flood protection angle
i. How b=
ig are your subnets? If they are huge (bigger then /24) you're going to st=
art running up against broadcast issues.
ii. Have y=
ou considered Private VLAN's? Might help limit outages to a smaller group =
of people
iii. Do you=
limit the number of MAC addresses on a single port?
It surprises me that you are seeing unicast flooding like this.. in campus =
environments, and even in datacenters I have found that that is relatively =
rare. Granted, I don't work in in reshalls anymore and the nature of that =
traffic is different then here in sell-out world :) but I'd be interested t=
o see traces of who is flooding who and from what process etc etc...
Ryan Dorman
Director, Enterprise Technology Strategy Blackboard Inc.
O: 202.463.4860 x2618<tel:202.463.4860%20x2618>
M: 202.370.7889<tel:202.370.7889>
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSER=
V.ND.EDU>] On Behalf Of Crowe, Sheila
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:15 PM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>
Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
Thank you to Rand, Bruce and my hero, Adam Brock.
A bit more detailed information to help all the Cisco network guru types he=
lp me. To recap...
We have 2 housing areas: residence halls and family and graduate apartment=
s. Both areas have Cisco 2960 layer 2 switches and Cisco 3750 fiber switch=
es. In the residence halls we have one wired port per pillow and almost ub=
iquitous wireless coverage via Aruba APs and a single controller. ResNet i=
s charged as part of the room and board in the residence halls.
We don't provide wireless coverage in family and graduate housing. Our fam=
ily housing area was wired about 13 years ago and provided only one wired j=
ack per apartment; because of that, virtually every customer in family hous=
ing uses a soho wireless router. Prior to our upgrade in June, we were usi=
ng 3Com fiber switches and Cisco 2960 layer 2 switches, When we upgraded th=
is section of our network (from 3Com fiber switches to Cisco 3750s), we imm=
ediately had a BIG problem with our network dropping in family housing; no =
problems in the res halls. Backwards soho routers were not the problem bec=
ause we use DHCP snooping. Prior to the upgrade, our network ran like a sca=
lded cat in FGH. It was ultimately decided that the problem was caused by =
the larger concentration of SOHO wireless routers in that area producing un=
icast packet floods. Our team has discovered that Cisco switches have a fe=
ature called flood blocking that will block unicast and multicast floods at=
the switchpor!
t level. We are deploying this slowly. I am told that it is NOT Cisco's =
Storm Control.
My questions, slightly re-phrased:
1. For those of you who have a similar network, do you utilize either=
Storm Control or flood blocking? Why do you use one rather than the other=
?
2. Do you use some other measure to deal with unicast packet floods?
3. Considering the physical environment (single wired jacks), what do=
you feel is best practice when it comes to stopping unicast packet floods?
If you need more detail from me, please ask. Any information or feedback i=
s appreciated. If you prefer, please feel free to contact me off-list.
Thank you!
Sheila Crowe
MSU ResNet
sheila@montana.edu<mailto:sheila@montana.edu><mailto:sheila@montana.edu<mai=
lto:sheila@montana.edu>>
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSER=
V.ND.EDU>]<mailto:[mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV=
.ND.EDU>]> On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W
Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 5:48 AM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU><mailto:RESNET=
-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU>>
Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
That is only the port part of the configuration. There are some global sett=
ings too.
Also, your switch uplink or the switch port with the DHCP server needs to b=
e trusted for this to function correctly. The three processes used here are=
"ARP inspection", "DHCO snooping", and "IP source guard". The features can=
vary, depending on your model of switch.
Here is one example of Cisco's documentation. This one is for 3550 switches=
. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/switches/lan/catalyst3550/software/releas=
e/12.2_25_see/configuration/guide/swdhcp82.html
Bruce Osborne
Network Engineer
IT Network Services
(434) 592-4229<tel:%28434%29%20592-4229>
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
Training Champions for Christ since 1971
From: Hall, Rand [mailto:hallr@MERRIMACK.EDU<mailto:hallr@MERRIMACK.EDU>]<m=
ailto:[mailto:hallr@MERRIMACK.EDU<mailto:hallr@MERRIMACK.EDU>]>
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking
Sheila,
Good luck blocking rogues. :-) Your best bet is to hold to your commitment =
to providing service to the jack. To that you can add some basic best pract=
ice suggestions to people who want to try using a wireless router or bridge=
(enable encryption, negotiate channel selection with neighbors, etc).
Your network folks will want to turn on DHCP Snooping. Sometimes a resident=
will plug a router in "backwards" and offer up DHCP leases to their neighb=
ors--not a pretty sight. If they are new to Cisco they might appreciate a s=
ample interface config for some ideas. Feel free to share:
switchport access vlan xx
switchport mode access
switchport protected
switchport port-security maximum 6
switchport port-security
switchport port-security aging time 1
switchport port-security violation restrict switchport port-security agin=
g type inactivity ip arp inspection limit rate 15 burst interval 10 storm=
-control broadcast level pps 50 10 storm-control multicast level pps 50 10=
spanning-tree portfast spanning-tree bpduguard enable ip verify source =
ip dhcp snooping limit rate 10
Rand
Rand P. Hall
Director, Network Services askIT!
Merrimack College
978-837-3532<tel:978-837-3532><tel:978-837-3532<tel:978-837-3532>>
rand.hall@merrimack.edu<mailto:rand.hall@merrimack.edu><mailto:rand.hall@me=
rrimack.edu<mailto:rand.hall@merrimack.edu>>
If I had an hour to save the world, I would spend 59 minutes defining the p=
roblem and one minute finding solutions. - Einstein
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM, Crowe, Sheila <sheila@montana.edu<mailto:s=
heila@montana.edu><mailto:sheila@montana.edu<mailto:sheila@montana.edu>>> w=
rote:
In early March, I participated in a thread started by Jeannie Abney about w=
hat other schools' polices are for residents bringing personal wireless rou=
ters onto your network. I added some questions pertaining to single family=
apartments (vs. residence halls) and got some great feedback. I would lik=
e to take it a step further and ask some more questions based on the type o=
f network that we have.
We have a Cisco network, a core at the origin of the commodity internet pip=
e, and a subnet for each of our buildings (really areas). In the residence=
halls we have a large Aruba wireless network installed so that every build=
ing is blanketed for secure wireless internet access. In the residence ha=
lls, ResNet is charged out to every resident regardless of whether they use=
it or not.
We do not provide ubiquitous wireless coverage in family housing because Re=
sNet is an opt-in service. Additionally, our family housing area was wired =
about 13 years ago and only provided one wired jack per apartment. As I'm s=
ure you can imagine, virtually every customer in family housing has a soho =
wireless router. When we upgraded this section of our network (from 3Com s=
witches to Cisco), we immediately had a BIG problem with our network droppi=
ng constantly. It was ultimately decided that it was the SOHO wireless rou=
ters causing the problem; namely, unicast packet floods through our Cisco s=
witch ports. Only recently it was discovered that Cisco switches have a fea=
ture that will block unicast and multicast floods. We are deploying this s=
lowly.
Now for the questions. For those of you who have a similar network, do you =
employ this Cisco feature or do you simply block all "rogue" wireless conne=
ctions? Or do you have another measure in place to deal with the unicast p=
acket floods? Also, do your network engineers consider this a stopgap meas=
ure ("band-aid") to deal with residences where you do not offer WiFi?
Please do share all of the details about this issue (or non-issue) on your =
network as you know them. And thanks a million!
Sheila Crowe
Montana State University ResNet
406.994.4230<tel:406.994.4230><tel:406.994.4230<tel:406.994.4230>>
406.209.7243<tel:406.209.7243><tel:406.209.7243<tel:406.209.7243>>
P.S. I'm hoping to see all of you at the 2012 Student Technology Conference=
at Claremont Colleges!
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This email and any attachments may contain confidential and proprietary inf=
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--
Chris Webster
Senior Technician
OIT Walk-in Center
North Carolina State University
Ph: 919.513.2676<tel:919.513.2676>
Fax: 919.513.2945<tel:919.513.2945>
Email: chris.webster@ncsu.edu<mailto:chris.webster@ncsu.edu>
Web: http://go.ncsu.edu/wic/
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EDU/archives/resnet-l.html ________________________________________________=
___
This email and any attachments may contain confidential and proprietary inf=
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If you are not the intended recipient, disclosure, copying, re-distribution=
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ediately notify the sender and delete this transmission if you received thi=
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--
Chris Webster
Senior Technician
OIT Walk-in Center
North Carolina State University
Ph: 919.513.2676
Fax: 919.513.2945
Email: chris.webster@ncsu.edu<mailto:chris.webster@ncsu.edu>
Web: http://go.ncsu.edu/wic/
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or other use of any of this information is strictly prohibited. Please imm=
ediately notify the sender and delete this transmission if you received thi=
s email in error.
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<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vli=
nk=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'f=
ont-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Here̵=
7;s mine.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-siz=
e:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-famil=
y:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Windows IP Configuration<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'> Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : DILDOS=
AURUSREX<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Prim=
ary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";col=
or:#1F497D'> Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Hybrid<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> IP Routing Enab=
led. . . . . . . . : No<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&n=
bsp; WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No<o:p></o:p></span></p><p c=
lass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","san=
s-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F4=
97D'>Wireless LAN adapter Wireless Network Connection:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'> Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : <o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Description . . . =
. . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/Wireless 3945ABG Network Connection<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Physical Address. . .=
. . . . . . : 00-13-02-5E-15-69<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1=
F497D'> DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Autoconfiguration Enabled . =
. . . : Yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> L=
ink-local IPv6 Address . . . . . : fe80::1d46:5e2a:730e:d69f%11(Preferred) =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> IPv4 Ad=
dress. . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.10(Preferred) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sa=
ns-serif";color:#1F497D'> Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . =
. : 255.255.255.0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> &n=
bsp; Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, April 29, 2012 1:03:26 PM<=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;f=
ont-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Lease Expires=
. . . . . . . . . . : Friday, May 04, 2012 1:03:29 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Default Gateway . . . . . . . . .=
: 10.0.0.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-s=
ize:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> D=
HCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 10.0.0.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'> DHCPv6 IAID . . . . . . . . . . . : 201331=
458<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0=
pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> DHCPv6 Cl=
ient DUID. . . . . . . . : 00-01-00-01-13-19-F4-D8-00-15-C5-BC-24-11<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> DNS Servers . . . .=
. . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'> NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Enabled<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cal=
ibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'>Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:<o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri"=
,"sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNorm=
al><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color=
:#1F497D'> Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnect=
ed<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0p=
t;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Connection=
-specific DNS Suffix . : <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'> Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Broadcom NetXtr=
eme 57xx Gigabit Controller<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'> Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-19-B9-6A-21-E0<o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fa=
mily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> DHCP Enabled. . . .=
. . . . . . . : Yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbs=
p; Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'>Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 9:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'=
> Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : <o:p></o:p></span></=
p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri=
","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Description . . . . . . . .=
. . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3D=
MsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'> Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-=
00-00-00-00-E0<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>  =
; DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : No<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMs=
oNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";=
color:#1F497D'> Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes<o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-fam=
ily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> IPv6 Address. . . . =
. . . . . . . : 2001:0:4137:9e76:3491:1eee:b4be:61c5(Preferred) <o:p></o:p>=
</span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family=
:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Link-local IPv6 Ad=
dress . . . . . : fe80::3491:1eee:b4be:61c5%22(Preferred) <o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> Default Gateway . . . . =
. . . . . : ::<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>  =
; NetBIOS over Tcpip. . . . . . . . : Disabled<o:p></o:p></span></p><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-s=
erif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span=
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D=
'>Tunnel adapter isatap.{2EA0A6F6-79DE-4D1A-A357-2B8710283CC5}:<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'> Media State . . . . . . . . . . . : Media =
disconnected<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> =
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"=
;color:#1F497D'> Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Micro=
soft ISATAP Adapter #2<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nb=
sp; Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-f=
amily:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> DHCP Enabled. . . =
. . . . . . . . : No<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbs=
p; Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes<o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'borde=
r:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma=
","sans-serif"'> Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] <b>On Behal=
f Of </b>Ryan Dorman<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 03, 2012 4:38 PM<br><b>T=
o:</b> RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [RESNET-L] SOHO WiFi=
routers and residential networking<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D"_MailEn=
dCompose"><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif=
";color:#1F497D'>Can you send the output of an ipconfig /all from a connect=
ed machine? If you want to send it off list I understand.</span></a><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-se=
rif";color:#1F497D'>-rd<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o=
:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:=
10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Resnet Forum <a href=3D"=
mailto:[mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]">[mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]=
</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b>Chris Webster<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 03, 20=
12 12:30 PM<br><b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU">RESNE=
T-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: SOHO WiFi routers and reside=
ntial networking<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>It's possible to have multiple subnets in a singl=
e VLAN. We have a few VLANs here that have multiple /24s assigned to them.&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><d=
iv><p class=3DMsoNormal>Running out of addresses will likely manifest as ma=
chines sometimes getting an IP address and sometimes not, depending on your=
DHCP implementation and lease times. It will be fairly obvious, but only i=
f you're already entertaining that as an idea. Otherwise it sounds absolute=
ly ludicrous.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>=
</div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-Chris<o:p><=
/o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 2:51 PM, Crowe, S=
heila <<a href=3D"mailto:sheila@montana.edu" target=3D"_blank">sheila@mo=
ntana.edu</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p>Based on the correct de=
finition of /24, our subnets are not larger than 256 IP addresses. Gi=
ven that, I’m wondering how we were ever able to just use one subnet?=
We have well over than 300 devices connected at one time in a single=
subnet. Reckon they’re counting on not everyone being connecte=
d at the same time, but that’s pretty iffy in our larger dorms (~300 =
residents there). In Family Housing, at peak times of the year, we ha=
ve more than 500 users. Good Lord. If not enough IP space is th=
e problem, I might open a vein. (My sense of humor is sometimes inapp=
ropriate). <o:p></o:p></p><p> <o:p></o:p></p><p>Adam, these floo=
ds continue but are much fewer in number per day than they used to be. =
; I don't have a record of a packet capture at hand (I will ask for one), b=
ut Central IT uses “Cacti monitoring of switch ports, with the Thresh=
old plugin configured to detect unicast packet rates well above normal on o=
ne (or more) interfaces.” Central IT is triggering on one of our fibe=
r uplinks when the unicast packet rate exceeds 50,000 packets/second. =
I get a report every time this happens…used to happen hundreds of ti=
mes per day is now down to about 1-2 per day since our network guy has begu=
n configuring those fiber ports with flood blocking.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p> ~Sheila Crowe<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span styl=
e=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nb=
sp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B=
5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><b><span style=3D'font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Resnet Forum [mailto:<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV=
.ND.EDU</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Ryan Dorman<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May =
03, 2012 12:20 PM</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><=
b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RES=
NET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: SOHO WiFi routers and resi=
dential networking<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>&=
nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;m=
so-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><a name=3D"137140db93872bba__MailEndCompose"><sp=
an style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F49=
7D'>Yep, happy to help with staring at captures.. its far more interesting =
than “Strategy” whatever that means</span></a><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><o:p></o:p></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt=
:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";c=
olor:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso=
-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:1=
1.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As a general rule (=
I say <b>general</b> I know there are exceptions, styles and other such th=
at engineers use for IPAM) a /24 is the largest size network you should put=
end user PC’s on. Especially given the chatty nature of Mac mu=
lticast/rendezvoux traffic, MS broadcast traffic etc etc it can result in a=
single packet being responded to by 100’s of machines that it was no=
t ultimately destined for…. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>&nbs=
p;</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:au=
to;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><=
span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F=
497D'>-rd</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top=
-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-=
family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p><p=
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:a=
uto'><b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>=
From:</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-=
serif"'> Resnet Forum <a href=3D"mailto:[mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]" =
target=3D"_blank">[mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]</a> <b>On Behalf Of </b=
>Chris Webster<br><b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 03, 2012 11:04 AM<br><b>To:</b=
> <a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LI=
STSERV.ND.EDU</a><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential =
networking</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-to=
p-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>P=
acket captures are almost always useful in identifying problems that can't =
be explained simply based on the symptoms (which it's why it's one of the f=
irst things network people look for). I'm happy to take a look at any captu=
res you have, with the caveat that the problem might be totally over my hea=
d.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMs=
oNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>/24 is=
CIDR notation meaning a block of 256 IP addresses. Wikipedia link is =
the best I can do right now... I'll see if I can come up with a better expl=
anatory article later: <a href=3D"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classle=
ss_Inter-Domain_Routing#IPv4_CIDR_blocks" target=3D"_blank">http://en.wikip=
edia.org/wiki/Classless_Inter-Domain_Routing#IPv4_CIDR_blocks</a><o:p></o:p=
></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-=
bottom-alt:auto'><br>-Chris <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:=
p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-=
margin-bottom-alt:auto'>On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 1:49 PM, Crowe, Sheila <<=
a href=3D"mailto:sheila@montana.edu" target=3D"_blank">sheila@montana.edu</=
a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-al=
t:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>I'm sure that we have done packet captur=
es, Adam...would it help to see those?<br><br>Ryan, I'm not sure what you m=
ean by subnets bigger than "/24." (I'm gonna read the Eric =
Leahy paper at lunch). I'm learning a little about networking along t=
he way, aren't I?<br><br>My plan for the responses from the RESNET-L is to =
combine the suggestions and questions and present them to the network guy f=
or analysis and answers.<br><br>Keep them coming! And thank you very =
much for sharing your expertise with me.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Sheila Cro=
we<br>Montana State University<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'>-----Original Mess=
age-----<br>From: Resnet Forum [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.=
ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a>] On Behalf Of Brock,=
Adam<br>Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 9:24 PM<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:RES=
NET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a><br>Su=
bject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking<o:p></o:p></p></div=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:1=
2.0pt'>Also, did anyone try getting a packet capture of the unicast traffic=
, or was that just a theory?<br>Sent from my Brockberry.<br>_______________=
_________________<br>From: Ryan Dorman <<a href=3D"mailto:Ryan.Dorman@bl=
ackboard.com" target=3D"_blank">Ryan.Dorman@blackboard.com</a>><br>Sende=
r: Resnet Forum <<a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_=
blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a>><br>Date: Wed, 2 May 2012 21:33:01 -=
0500<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">R=
ESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a><<a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" =
target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a>><br>ReplyTo: Resnet Forum=
<<a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L=
@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a>><br>Subject: Re: [RESNET-L] SOHO WiFi routers and r=
esidential networking<br><br>My questions, slightly re-phrased:<br><br>1. &=
nbsp; For those of you who have a similar network, do you uti=
lize either Storm Control or flood blocking? Why do you use one rathe=
r than the other?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-mar=
gin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>a. We use=
d storm control in the dorms back in my day (ha ha ha)... it was one of our=
bandaid procedures for sasser/blaster (hence why I did not describe it as =
the good old days). It has advantage of dealing with multiple types o=
f traffic, not just Unicast.<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=
=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>b. &nbs=
p;This is a good article explaining the differences <a href=3D"http://ericl=
eahy.com/?p=3D611" target=3D"_blank">http://ericleahy.com/?p=3D611</a><br><=
br><br><br>2. Do you use some other measure to deal wi=
th unicast packet floods?<br><br>a. No<br><br><br>3. &=
nbsp; Considering the physical environment (single wired jack=
s), what do you feel is best practice when it comes to stopping unicast pac=
ket floods?<br><br>a. There are a couple things I woul=
d look at here more from a design perspective then a flood protection angle=
<br><br> &nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; =
i. How big are your subnets? If they are huge (bi=
gger then /24) you're going to start running up against broadcast issues.<b=
r><br> =
&nbs=
p; ii.  =
; Have you considered Private VLAN's? Might help limit o=
utages to a smaller group of people<br><br> &nbs=
p; &n=
bsp; =
iii. Do you limit the number=
of MAC addresses on a single port?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNorma=
l style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>It surprises=
me that you are seeing unicast flooding like this.. in campus environments=
, and even in datacenters I have found that that is relatively rare. =
Granted, I don't work in in reshalls anymore and the nature of that traffic=
is different then here in sell-out world :) but I'd be interested to see t=
races of who is flooding who and from what process etc etc...<o:p></o:p></p=
><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:1=
2.0pt'><br>Ryan Dorman<br>Director, Enterprise Technology Strategy Blackboa=
rd Inc.<br><br>O: <a href=3D"tel:202.463.4860%20x2618" target=3D"_blank">20=
2.463.4860 x2618</a><br>M: <a href=3D"tel:202.370.7889" target=3D"_blank">2=
02.370.7889</a><br><br>From: Resnet Forum [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-=
L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a>] On Behal=
f Of Crowe, Sheila<br>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 2:15 PM<br>To: <a href=3D=
"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.ED=
U</a><br>Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking<br><br>T=
hank you to Rand, Bruce and my hero, Adam Brock.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'=
>A bit more detailed information to help all the Cisco network guru types h=
elp me. To recap...<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br>We have 2 hous=
ing areas: residence halls and family and graduate apartments. =
Both areas have Cisco 2960 layer 2 switches and Cisco 3750 fiber switches. =
In the residence halls we have one wired port per pillow and almost u=
biquitous wireless coverage via Aruba APs and a single controller. Re=
sNet is charged as part of the room and board in the residence halls.<br><b=
r>We don't provide wireless coverage in family and graduate housing. =
Our family housing area was wired about 13 years ago and provided only one =
wired jack per apartment; because of that, virtually every customer in fami=
ly housing uses a soho wireless router. Prior to our upgrade in June,=
we were using 3Com fiber switches and Cisco 2960 layer 2 switches, When we=
upgraded this section of our network (from 3Com fiber switches to Cisco 37=
50s), we immediately had a BIG problem with our network dropping in family =
housing; no problems in the res halls. Backwards soho routers were no=
t the problem because we use DHCP snooping. Prior to the upgrade, our netwo=
rk ran like a scalded cat in FGH. It was ultimately decided that the =
problem was caused by the larger concentration of SOHO wireless routers in =
that area producing unicast packet floods. Our team has discovered th=
at Cisco switches have a feature called flood blocking that will block unic=
ast and multicast floods at the switchpor!<br> t level. We are d=
eploying this slowly. I am told that it is NOT Cisco's Storm Control.=
<br><br>My questions, slightly re-phrased:<br><br>1. F=
or those of you who have a similar network, do you utilize either Storm Con=
trol or flood blocking? Why do you use one rather than the other?<br>=
<br><br>2. Do you use some other measure to deal with =
unicast packet floods?<br><br><br>3. Considering the p=
hysical environment (single wired jacks), what do you feel is best practice=
when it comes to stopping unicast packet floods?<br><br><br>If you need mo=
re detail from me, please ask. Any information or feedback is appreci=
ated. If you prefer, please feel free to contact me off-list.<br><br>=
Thank you!<br>Sheila Crowe<br>MSU ResNet<br><a href=3D"mailto:sheila@montan=
a.edu" target=3D"_blank">sheila@montana.edu</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:sheila@montana.edu" target=3D"_blank">sheila@montana.edu</a>><br><br><b=
r>From: Resnet Forum [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a>]<mailto:[mailto:<a href=3D"=
mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU=
</a>]> On Behalf Of Osborne, Bruce W<br>Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2012 5:48=
AM<br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RE=
SNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND=
.EDU" target=3D"_blank">RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU</a>><br>Subject: Re: SO=
HO WiFi routers and residential networking<br><br>That is only the port par=
t of the configuration. There are some global settings too.<br><br>Also, yo=
ur switch uplink or the switch port with the DHCP server needs to be truste=
d for this to function correctly. The three processes used here are "A=
RP inspection", "DHCO snooping", and "IP source guard&q=
uot;. The features can vary, depending on your model of switch.<br><br>Here=
is one example of Cisco's documentation. This one is for 3550 switches. <a=
href=3D"http://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/switches/lan/catalyst3550/software=
/release/12.2_25_see/configuration/guide/swdhcp82.html" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttp://www.cisco.com/en/US/docs/switches/lan/catalyst3550/software/release/1=
2.2_25_see/configuration/guide/swdhcp82.html</a><br><br><br>Bruce Osborne<b=
r>Network Engineer<br>IT Network Services<br><br><a href=3D"tel:%28434%29%2=
0592-4229" target=3D"_blank">(434) 592-4229</a><br><br>LIBERTY UNIVERSITY<b=
r>Training Champions for Christ since 1971<br><br>From: Hall, Rand [mailto:=
<a href=3D"mailto:hallr@MERRIMACK.EDU" target=3D"_blank">hallr@MERRIMACK.ED=
U</a>]<mailto:[mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:hallr@MERRIMACK.EDU" target=3D"_=
blank">hallr@MERRIMACK.EDU</a>]><br>Sent: Monday, April 30, 2012 12:39 P=
M<br>Subject: Re: SOHO WiFi routers and residential networking<br><br>Sheil=
a,<br><br>Good luck blocking rogues. :-) Your best bet is to hold to your c=
ommitment to providing service to the jack. To that you can add some basic =
best practice suggestions to people who want to try using a wireless router=
or bridge (enable encryption, negotiate channel selection with neighbors, =
etc).<br><br>Your network folks will want to turn on DHCP Snooping. Sometim=
es a resident will plug a router in "backwards" and offer up DHCP=
leases to their neighbors--not a pretty sight. If they are new to Cisco th=
ey might appreciate a sample interface config for some ideas. Feel free to =
share:<br><br> switchport access vlan xx<br> switchport mode acce=
ss<br> switchport protected<br> switchport port-security maximum =
6<br> switchport port-security<br> switchport port-security aging=
time 1<br> switchport port-security violation restrict switchpo=
rt port-security aging type inactivity ip arp inspection limit rate 1=
5 burst interval 10 storm-control broadcast level pps 50 10 sto=
rm-control multicast level pps 50 10 spanning-tree portfast spa=
nning-tree bpduguard enable ip verify source ip dhcp snooping l=
imit rate 10<br><br><br>Rand<br><br>Rand P. Hall<br>Director, Network Servi=
ces askIT!<br>Merri=
mack College<br><a href=3D"tel:978-837-3532" target=3D"_blank">978-837-3532=
</a><tel:<a href=3D"tel:978-837-3532" target=3D"_blank">978-837-3532</a>=
><br><a href=3D"mailto:rand.hall@merrimack.edu" target=3D"_blank">rand.h=
all@merrimack.edu</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:rand.hall@merrimack.edu" =
target=3D"_blank">rand.hall@merrimack.edu</a>><br><br>If I had an hour t=
o save the world, I would spend 59 minutes defining the problem and one min=
ute finding solutions. - Einstein<br><br>On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:48 PM, C=
rowe, Sheila <<a href=3D"mailto:sheila@montana.edu" target=3D"_blank">sh=
eila@montana.edu</a><mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:sheila@montana.edu" target=
=3D"_blank">sheila@montana.edu</a>>> wrote:<br>In early March, I part=
icipated in a thread started by Jeannie Abney about what other schools' pol=
ices are for residents bringing personal wireless routers onto your network=
. I added some questions pertaining to single family apartments (vs. =
residence halls) and got some great feedback. I would like to take it=
a step further and ask some more questions based on the type of network th=
at we have.<br><br>We have a Cisco network, a core at the origin of the com=
modity internet pipe, and a subnet for each of our buildings (really areas)=
. In the residence halls we have a large Aruba wireless network insta=
lled so that every building is blanketed for secure wireless internet acces=
s. In the residence halls, ResNet is charged out to every resident r=
egardless of whether they use it or not.<br><br>We do not provide ubiquitou=
s wireless coverage in family housing because ResNet is an opt-in service. =
Additionally, our family housing area was wired about 13 years ago and only=
provided one wired jack per apartment. As I'm sure you can imagine, virtua=
lly every customer in family housing has a soho wireless router. When=
we upgraded this section of our network (from 3Com switches to Cisco), we =
immediately had a BIG problem with our network dropping constantly. I=
t was ultimately decided that it was the SOHO wireless routers causing the =
problem; namely, unicast packet floods through our Cisco switch ports. Only=
recently it was discovered that Cisco switches have a feature that will bl=
ock unicast and multicast floods. We are deploying this slowly.<br><b=
r>Now for the questions. For those of you who have a similar network, do yo=
u employ this Cisco feature or do you simply block all "rogue" wi=
reless connections? Or do you have another measure in place to deal w=
ith the unicast packet floods? Also, do your network engineers consid=
er this a stopgap measure ("band-aid") to deal with residences wh=
ere you do not offer WiFi?<br><br>Please do share all of the details about =
this issue (or non-issue) on your network as you know them. And thank=
s a million!<br><br>Sheila Crowe<br>Montana State University ResNet<br><a h=
ref=3D"tel:406.994.4230" target=3D"_blank">406.994.4230</a><tel:<a href=
=3D"tel:406.994.4230" target=3D"_blank">406.994.4230</a>><br><a href=3D"=
tel:406.209.7243" target=3D"_blank">406.209.7243</a><tel:<a href=3D"tel:=
406.209.7243" target=3D"_blank">406.209.7243</a>><br><br>P.S. I'm hoping=
to see all of you at the 2012 Student Technology Conference at Claremont C=
olleges!<br><br>___________________________________________________ You are=
subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list.<br><br>To subscribe, unsubscribe =
or search the archives, go to <a href=3D"http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/re=
snet-l.html" target=3D"_blank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.htm=
l</a> ___________________________________________________<br><br>__________=
_________________________________________ You are subscribed to the ResNet-=
L mailing list.<br><br>To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the archives, go=
to <a href=3D"http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html</a> ____________________=
_______________________________<br>________________________________________=
___________ You are subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list.<br><br>To subs=
cribe, unsubscribe or search the archives, go to <a href=3D"http://LISTSERV=
.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html" target=3D"_blank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/ar=
chives/resnet-l.html</a> __________________________________________________=
_<br>___________________________________________________ You are subscribed=
to the ResNet-L mailing list.<br><br>To subscribe, unsubscribe or search t=
he archives, go to <a href=3D"http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html=
" target=3D"_blank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html</a> _____=
______________________________________________<br><br>This email and any at=
tachments may contain confidential and proprietary information of Blackboar=
d that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the in=
tended recipient, disclosure, copying, re-distribution or other use of any =
of this information is strictly prohibited. Please immediately notify the s=
ender and delete this transmission if you received this email in error.<br>=
___________________________________________________ You are subscribed to t=
he ResNet-L mailing list.<br><br>To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the ar=
chives, go to <a href=3D"http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html" tar=
get=3D"_blank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html</a> __________=
_________________________________________<br><br>__________________________=
_________________________<br>You are subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing lis=
t.<br><br>To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the archives, go to <a href=
=3D"http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html" target=3D"_blank">http:/=
/LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html</a><br>____________________________=
_______________________<br><br>____________________________________________=
_______<br>You are subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list.<br><br>To subsc=
ribe, unsubscribe or search the archives,<br>go to <a href=3D"http://LISTSE=
RV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html" target=3D"_blank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/=
archives/resnet-l.html</a><br>_____________________________________________=
______<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-ma=
rgin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><br clear=3Dall><o:p></o:=
p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin=
-bottom-alt:auto'> <o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'=
mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>-- <br>Chris Webster<br=
>Senior Technician<br>OIT Walk-in Center<br>North Carolina State University=
<br><br>Ph: <a href=3D"tel:919.513.2676" target=3D"_blank">919.513.2676</a>=
<br>Fax: <a href=3D"tel:919.513.2945" target=3D"_blank">919.513.2945</a><br=
>Email: <a href=3D"mailto:chris.webster@ncsu.edu" target=3D"_blank">chris.w=
ebster@ncsu.edu</a><br>Web: <a href=3D"http://go.ncsu.edu/wic/" target=3D"_=
blank">http://go.ncsu.edu/wic/</a><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal=
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>_____________=
______________________________________ You are subscribed to the ResNet-L m=
ailing list. <o:p></o:p></p><p>To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the arch=
ives, go to <a href=3D"http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html" targe=
t=3D"_blank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html</a> ____________=
_______________________________________ <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'><br><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:blue'>This em=
ail and any attachments may contain confidential and proprietary informatio=
n of Blackboard that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you =
are not the intended recipient, disclosure, copying, re-distribution or oth=
er use of any of this information is strictly prohibited. Please immediatel=
y notify the sender and delete this transmission if you received this email=
in error.</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'mso-margin-to=
p-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto'>____________________________________=
_______________ You are subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list. <o:p></o:p=
></p><p>To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the archives, go to <a href=3D"=
http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html" target=3D"_blank">http://LIS=
TSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html</a> ___________________________________=
________________ <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=
=3DMsoNormal>___________________________________________________ You are su=
bscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list. <o:p></o:p></p><p>To subscribe, unsu=
bscribe or search the archives, go to <a href=3D"http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/arc=
hives/resnet-l.html" target=3D"_blank">http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resn=
et-l.html</a> ___________________________________________________ <o:p></o:=
p></p></div></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><br><br clear=3Dall><o:p></o:p=
></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNor=
mal>-- <br>Chris Webster<br>Senior Technician<br>OIT Walk-in Center<br>Nort=
h Carolina State University<br><br>Ph: 919.513.2676<br>Fax: 919.513.2945<br=
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