[26509] in resnet
Re: NAC solution removal
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Foerst, Daniel P.)
Tue Jun 14 11:14:02 2011
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Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 15:13:42 +0000
Reply-To: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu>
From: "Foerst, Daniel P." <FOERST@CUA.EDU>
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
In-Reply-To: <648355A0EA9BCE4C8E867D496C8F41B54AC56695@Abel.stmartin.edu>
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While I do not disagree that the whole NAC solution can degrade the Interne=
t experience and does add some administrative overhead, what are you doing =
for remediation in regards to your clients? In our network we can enforce s=
ystem patches, anti-virus is updated since these systems are university own=
ed.
However when it comes to our students we do not have that ability as we do =
not have ownership. Instead we require installation of an agent that ensure=
s the students are complying to the AUP and keeping their own systems up to=
date. Should a system fall out of compliance after a set period of time th=
e user loses Internet access.
Similarly how to do you protect against guest access, especially if a guest=
is bringing a worm, virus, malware, etc?
In today's budget conscience world I can certainly see removal of money guz=
zling equipment if you have a cheaper means to maintain the same or close t=
o the same level of protection for your network and I too would love to sav=
e money where possible!
Thanks!
-dan
Daniel Foerst
Assistant Director, Networks & Security
The Catholic University of America
Washington, DC 20064
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Boland, J=
ordan
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:35 AM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: Re: NAC solution removal
My last institution didn't employ a NAC, but instead used a homebrew client=
registration system to help keep order. MAC addresses were registered int=
o a database, and VMPS was used to assign machines to the correct VLAN when=
they connected. Machines showing 'interesting' behavior or subject to a p=
olicy sanction were either assigned to a jail VLAN or ignored completely (s=
witchport can be disabled remotely via VMPS as well).
At SMU, we are in the process of removing our Bradford NAC and replacing it=
with a system similar to the one described above. Because we are not a ci=
sco shop (and VMPS is deprecated) we are employing 802.1x MAC address authe=
ntication and dynamic VLAN assignment via RADIUS. The system is designed t=
o be a full-campus solution, but could be deployed to ResNet only if desire=
d.
At this time, all proof-of-concept and integration tests have been complete=
d, and I am in the process of finishing the management scripts and registra=
tion user interface. Notes and code can be made available to any intereste=
d parties.
As far as why we are doing this, I find the cost of implementing the NAC is=
too much considering what we get out of it. While the 802.1X/RADIUS/DVA s=
olution does not provide me with the same level of control that the NAC doe=
s, it also doesn't require the client software that seems to degrade our us=
er experience so much. I want to be able to identify a machine on a networ=
k as belonging to a particular student, and take enforcement measures if ne=
cessary. Since this provides me with a big "Internet kill switch" on each =
machine, it works well enough for my purposes.
-Jordan
Network Administrator
Saint Martin's University
5300 Pacific Ave SE
Lacey, WA 98503-7500
(360) 486-8838
jboland@stmartin.edu<mailto:jboland@stmartin.edu>
From: Resnet Forum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU] On Behalf Of Michael P=
Hizny
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:29 AM
To: RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU
Subject: NAC solution removal
After having a NAC solution in place for the last 8 years, we are re-evalua=
ting whether or not we really need to support a solution of this type anymo=
re. Have any other Universities done, or considered removing their NAC sol=
ution?
Michael Hizny
Binghamton Univeristy
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">While I do not disagree t=
hat the whole NAC solution can degrade the Internet experience and does add=
some administrative overhead, what are you doing for remediation
in regards to your clients? In our network we can enforce system patches, =
anti-virus is updated since these systems are university owned.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However when it comes to =
our students we do not have that ability as we do not have ownership. Inste=
ad we require installation of an agent that ensures the
students are complying to the AUP and keeping their own systems up to date=
. Should a system fall out of compliance after a set period of time the use=
r loses Internet access.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Similarly how to do you p=
rotect against guest access, especially if a guest is bringing a worm, viru=
s, malware, etc?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In today’s budget c=
onscience world I can certainly see removal of money guzzling equipment if =
you have a cheaper means to maintain the same or close to the
same level of protection for your network and I too would love to save mon=
ey where possible!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-dan<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Daniel Foerst<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Assistant Director, Netwo=
rks & Security<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The Catholic University o=
f America<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Washington, DC 20064<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Resnet F=
orum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Boland, Jordan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 14, 2011 10:35 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: NAC solution removal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My last institution didn&=
#8217;t employ a NAC, but instead used a homebrew client registration syste=
m to help keep order. MAC addresses were registered into a database,
and VMPS was used to assign machines to the correct VLAN when they connect=
ed. Machines showing ‘interesting’ behavior or subject to=
a policy sanction were either assigned to a jail VLAN or ignored completel=
y (switchport can be disabled remotely via VMPS as
well).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">At SMU, we are in the pro=
cess of removing our Bradford NAC and replacing it with a system similar to=
the one described above. Because we are not a cisco shop
(and VMPS is deprecated) we are employing 802.1x MAC address authenticatio=
n and dynamic VLAN assignment via RADIUS. The system is designed to b=
e a full-campus solution, but could be deployed to ResNet only if desired.<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">At this time, all proof-o=
f-concept and integration tests have been completed, and I am in the proces=
s of finishing the management scripts and registration user
interface. Notes and code can be made available to any interested pa=
rties.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As far as why we are doin=
g this, I find the cost of implementing the NAC is too much considering wha=
t we get out of it. While the 802.1X/RADIUS/DVA solution
does not provide me with the same level of control that the NAC does, it a=
lso doesn’t require the client software that seems to degrade our use=
r experience so much. I want to be able to identify a machine on a ne=
twork as belonging to a particular student,
and take enforcement measures if necessary. Since this provides me w=
ith a big “Internet kill switch” on each machine, it works well=
enough for my purposes.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">-Jordan<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Network Administrator<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Saint Martin's University=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">5300 Pacific Ave SE<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Lacey, WA 98503-7500<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(360) 486-8838<o:p></o:p>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><a href=3D"mailto:jboland=
@stmartin.edu">jboland@stmartin.edu</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span><=
/p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-s=
ize:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Resnet F=
orum [mailto:RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Michael P Hizny<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 14, 2011 5:29 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> RESNET-L@LISTSERV.ND.EDU<br>
<b>Subject:</b> NAC solution removal<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">After having a NAC soluti=
on in place for the last 8 years, we are re-evaluating whether or not we re=
ally need to support a solution of this type anymore. Have
any other Universities done, or considered removing their NAC solution?</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Michael Hizny</span></i>=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><i><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"=
;Arial","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Binghamton Univeristy</s=
pan></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">___________________________________________________ =
You are subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list.
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http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html</a> _________________________=
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<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">___________________________________________________ =
You are subscribed to the ResNet-L mailing list.
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