[41293] in Resnet-Forum
Re: Making Training Mandatory
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Richard Musal (ITS))
Fri Jul 29 09:39:14 2016
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Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2016 09:38:35 -0400
Reply-To: Resnet Forum <RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu>
From: "Richard Musal (ITS)" <richard.musal@MANHATTAN.EDU>
To: RESNET-L@listserv.nd.edu
In-Reply-To: <CA+D7Yj9ZEPv4Ex4Uo-t6toyAasg6a4S4JgzkabRbPxRSDpfn5Q@mail.gmail.com>
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I second Brian's comments. Without accountability things will not change.
The bigger issue will become morale. Those that would follow the rules,
will start to slack because they see it is OK or worse, may leave.
I am not sure that you can legally have them work without pay. I may have
mis read that. You could not allow them to work without doing the
training, but again you are potentially hurting yourself.
Is there anyway to get your CIO to talk to the financial services
department about hiring in early august? If you do this, you can kind of
hold that over current staff. At our school we have a lot of supply of
willing students. If current students don't want to comply we can explain
that they are easily replaced. Luckily we don't usually have to go there,
but it is nice to know we can if we need to.
Try not to get into the dilemma of they are a great technician, they just
don't always follow the rules. I have been there. Cut slack for a
knowledgeable employee. Never again! I tell them, look your are
knowledgeable, but you are not following the rules. Updating ticketing is
a big part of the job, just fixing the issue is not enough, etc.
Another way to do this is the reverse. Instead of punishing the bad ones,
reward the good ones. So those that attend training and are reliable.
Promote them! I am not sure if you can give monetary raises, but is there
anything stopping you from making them a student manager or tech level 2 or
whatever? Then those not promoted can ask why they were not considered.
Answer, well you didn't go to training, didn't start early, etc.
Use the carrot vs the stick.
I also like the badges idea. Our CIO is big on badges too and we are
looking at how to implement for student training. Eventually we are
looking at badges for campus wide employee development.
Also think about what they really need to know the first few weeks. Do
they really need to know everything or is there a subset of knowledge that
will get you by that you can disseminate in the AM quickly? So the
students take care of the "easy/common" issues. The harder issues get
escalated to your tier two students who have been around the block. Then
the tier three issues come to you and your other FT colleague.
Rich
-----------------------
*Richard A. Musal, M.A., M.S., P.D.*
*Associate Director of Client Services & Operations, ITS*
Riverdale, NY 10471
Phone: 718-862-7933
richard.musal@manhattan.edu
www.manhattan.edu
<http://itsblog.manhattan.edu/>
<http://manhattan.edu/its>
*-Have a question? * Check our Knowledge Base
<https://manhattan.teamdynamix.com/TDClient/KB/Default>
Check on your tickets here
<https://manhattan.teamdynamix.com/TDClient/Requests/TicketRequests/>.
Have you transitioned to Drive yet? Learn more here
<http://itsblog.manhattan.edu/p/google-drive-one-place-to-create.html> or
ask ITS.
Click here
<https://manhattan.teamdynamix.com/TDClient/KB/Default?CategoryID=3D1022> f=
or
instructions on how to transition.
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Brian Burchett <bburchet@nd.edu> wrote:
> It sounds like the fundamental problem is that the students know there ar=
e
> no negative repercussions to missing the training session.
>
> You may not want to fire them, but perhaps you should not allow them to
> log hours until they complete the training. If the make-up training
> session isn't held for two or three weeks then they'll suffer the loss of
> those wages.
>
> Other options: does the training result in any kind of badging or
> departmental certification? Can students who complete the training and
> earn the badges (on time) be paid a higher hourly rate?
>
> Right now you're suffering from the freeloader effect. Students who don'=
t
> attend the training appear to enjoy all the benefits of the job without
> having to endure the undesirable parts of the job, so they're actually
> making a rational choice.
>
> Brian B.
>
> Manager, Academic Technologies
> University of Notre Dame
> 574.631.6503 -- bburchet@nd.edu
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 9:12 AM, Rizzo, Jim <JRIZZO@providence.edu> wrote=
:
>
>> Hey everyone!
>>
>>
>>
>> So I=E2=80=99m looking for a little bit of advice and insight into what =
you all
>> do with regards to training your student employees. I know I=E2=80=99m n=
ot in a
>> unique situation here, but I=E2=80=99ll tell you a little bit about my H=
elpdesk and
>> how we=E2=80=99ve been doing things.
>>
>>
>>
>> Our helpdesk, like many others, is staffed almost entirely by students.
>> In fact, there are only 2 full time employees, myself and one other
>> employee of mine who works nights. Like everyone else, the beginning of =
the
>> school year is the most difficult time for us, and having a partially
>> staffed desk does not make things easier. Couple the understaffing with
>> lack of training and it can be a nightmare.
>>
>>
>>
>> To make things easier, I, like many of you, hold a training program at
>> the end of the summer, bringing my students back to campus a week early =
to
>> train and to assist with the general move-in days, which are, admittedly=
,
>> much easier than they used to be, but can still be stressful, especially
>> when the freshmen move in. However, Providence College is a relatively
>> small school and most students get involved in other activities, many of
>> which require them to attend programs prior to the start of the semester=
.
>> These programs conflict with our training period. Add in students who ma=
ke
>> last minute vacation plans, and I end up with several who are unable to
>> attend training. This ultimately results in a staff that isn=E2=80=99t r=
eady to hit
>> the ground running at the start of the semester.
>>
>>
>>
>> So my question for all of you is how do you handle those situations? I
>> informed my staff of the training dates in January so they would know to
>> mark them on their calendars, but they still haven=E2=80=99t. I have a s=
trongly
>> worded email ready to send to them because I=E2=80=99m at my wit=E2=80=
=99s end here. I=E2=80=99m
>> not happy that so many have made other plans when they already had the
>> dates. I can=E2=80=99t just go and prevent them from working because I w=
ill have an
>> even smaller staff. So what do I do?!?! It=E2=80=99s extremely frustrati=
ng. I have
>> a larger portion than ever not attending, and adding in the fact that ou=
r
>> Financial Aid office will not allow me to hire prior to the beginning of
>> August means that I am very understaffed and undertrained at the start o=
f
>> the fall semester (our busiest time of year).
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Jim Rizzo
>>
>> Helpdesk Manager
>>
>> Providence College Information Technology
>>
>> (401) 865-1277
>>
>> AIM: JRizzoPC
>>
>> http://www.providence.edu/helpdesk
>>
>> *http://www.providence.edu/ihelp <http://www.providence.edu/ihelp>*
>>
>>
>>
>> Like us on Facebook!
>>
>> http://www.facebook.com/ProvCollHelpDesk
>>
>>
>>
>> Follow us on Twitter!
>>
>> http://twitter.com/PCITHelpdesk
>> ___________________________________________________ You are subscribed t=
o
>> the ResNet-L mailing list.
>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the archives, go to
>> http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html
>> ___________________________________________________
>>
>
> ___________________________________________________ You are subscribed to
> the ResNet-L mailing list.
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or search the archives, go to
> http://LISTSERV.ND.EDU/archives/resnet-l.html
> ___________________________________________________
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I second Brian's comments.=C2=A0 Without accountabilit=
y things will not change.=C2=A0 The bigger issue will become morale.=C2=A0 =
Those that would follow the rules, will start to slack because they see it =
is OK or worse, may leave.<div><br></div><div>I am not sure that you can le=
gally have them work without pay.=C2=A0 I may have mis read that.=C2=A0 You=
could not allow them to work without doing the training, but again you are=
potentially hurting yourself.</div><div><br></div><div>Is there anyway to =
get your CIO to talk to the financial services department about hiring in e=
arly august?=C2=A0 If you do this, you can kind of hold that over current s=
taff.=C2=A0 At our school we have a lot of supply of willing students.=C2=
=A0 If current students don't want to comply we can explain that they a=
re easily replaced.=C2=A0 Luckily we don't usually have to go there, bu=
t it is nice to know we can if we need to.</div><div><br></div><div>Try not=
to get into the dilemma of they are a great technician, they just don'=
t always follow the rules.=C2=A0 I have been there.=C2=A0 Cut slack for a k=
nowledgeable employee.=C2=A0 Never again!=C2=A0 I tell them, look your are =
knowledgeable, but you are not following the rules.=C2=A0 Updating ticketin=
g is a big part of the job, just fixing the issue =C2=A0is not enough, etc.=
=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Another way to do this is the reverse.=C2=
=A0 Instead of punishing the bad ones, reward the good ones.=C2=A0 So those=
that attend training and are reliable.=C2=A0 Promote them!=C2=A0 I am not =
sure if you can give monetary raises, but is there anything stopping you fr=
om making them a student manager or tech level 2 or whatever?=C2=A0 Then th=
ose not promoted can ask why they were not considered.=C2=A0 Answer, well y=
ou didn't go to training, didn't start early, etc. =C2=A0</div><div=
><br></div><div>Use the carrot vs the stick.</div><div><br></div><div>I als=
o like the badges idea.=C2=A0 Our CIO is big on badges too and we are looki=
ng at how to implement for student training.=C2=A0 Eventually we are lookin=
g at badges for campus wide employee development.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div=
><div>Also think about what they really need to know the first few weeks.=
=C2=A0 Do they really need to know everything or is there a subset of knowl=
edge that will get you by that you can disseminate in the AM quickly?=C2=A0=
So the students take care of the "easy/common" issues.=C2=A0 The=
harder issues get escalated to your tier two students who have been around=
the block.=C2=A0 Then the tier three issues come to you and your other FT =
colleague.</div><div><br>Rich</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br cle=
ar=3D"all"><div><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_sign=
ature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><d=
iv dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><sp=
an style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"><font co=
lor=3D"#006600" face=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family=
:arial,sans-serif"><div>-----------------------</div>
<b>Richard A. Musal, M.A., M.S., P.D.</b></font><div style=3D"font-size:14p=
x;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font color=3D"#006600" face=3D"georgia, se=
rif"><i>Associate Director of Client Services & Operations, ITS</i></fo=
nt></div><div style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font f=
ace=3D"georgia, serif"><img src=3D"http://home.manhattan.edu/collegerelatio=
ns/email_logo.jpg"><br></font></div>
<div style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font face=3D"ge=
orgia, serif">Riverdale, NY 10471</font></div><div style=3D"font-size:14px;=
font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font face=3D"georgia, serif">Phone: 718-862-=
7933</font></div><div style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"=
><font face=3D"georgia, serif"><a href=3D"mailto:richard.musal@manhattan.ed=
u" target=3D"_blank">richard.musal@manhattan.edu</a><br></font></div><div s=
tyle=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><font face=3D"georgia,=
serif"><a href=3D"http://www.manhattan.edu" target=3D"_blank">www.manhatta=
n.edu</a><br></font></div><div style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sa=
ns-serif"><br></div><div style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-ser=
if"><div><a href=3D"http://itsblog.manhattan.edu/" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85=
,204)" target=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"https://docs.google.com/a/manhattan.ed=
u/uc?id=3D0B4TIsutR6w_MZGJkZ3pYd3dBdDg&export=3Ddownload"></a><br></div=
><div><a href=3D"http://manhattan.edu/its" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><img src=3D"https://docs.google.com/a/manhattan.edu/uc?id=
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style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><b style=3D"font-size:12.800=
0001907349px;font-family:georgia,serif">-Have a question?=C2=A0</b><span st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-family:georgia,serif">=C2=A0Check =
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fault" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204);font-size:12.8000001907349px;font-fami=
ly:georgia,serif" target=3D"_blank">Knowledge Base</a><font face=3D"georgia=
, serif" size=3D"2"><br></font></div><div><br></div><div><font face=3D"geor=
gia, serif">Check on your tickets <a href=3D"https://manhattan.teamdynamix.=
com/TDClient/Requests/TicketRequests/" target=3D"_blank">here</a>.</font></=
div><div><font face=3D"georgia, serif" size=3D"2"><br></font></div><div><fo=
nt face=3D"georgia, serif" size=3D"2">Have you transitioned to Drive yet? L=
earn more=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://itsblog.manhattan.edu/p/google-drive-one-p=
lace-to-create.html" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,204)" target=3D"_blank">here<=
/a>=C2=A0or ask ITS.<br><br>Click=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://manhattan.teamdyn=
amix.com/TDClient/KB/Default?CategoryID=3D1022" style=3D"color:rgb(17,85,20=
4)" target=3D"_blank">here</a>=C2=A0for instructions on how to transition.<=
/font><br></div></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></di=
v></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 9:22 AM, Brian Burch=
ett <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:bburchet@nd.edu" target=3D"_bla=
nk">bburchet@nd.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"ltr">It sounds like the fundamental problem is that the studen=
ts know there are no negative repercussions to missing the training session=
.<div><br></div><div>You may not want to fire them, but perhaps you should =
not allow them to log hours until they complete the training.=C2=A0 If the =
make-up training session isn't held for two or three weeks then they=
9;ll suffer the loss of those wages.</div><div><br></div><div>Other options=
: does the training result in any kind of badging or departmental certifica=
tion?=C2=A0 Can students who complete the training and earn the badges (on =
time) be paid a higher hourly rate?</div><div><br></div><div>Right now you&=
#39;re suffering from the freeloader effect.=C2=A0 Students who don't a=
ttend the training appear to enjoy all the benefits of the job without havi=
ng to endure the undesirable parts of the job, so they're actually maki=
ng a rational choice.</div><div><br></div><div>Brian B.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Manager, Academic Technologies</div><div>University of Notre Dame</di=
v><div><a href=3D"tel:574.631.6503" value=3D"+15746316503" target=3D"_blank=
">574.631.6503</a> -- <a href=3D"mailto:bburchet@nd.edu" target=3D"_blank">=
bburchet@nd.edu</a></div></div><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><div=
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 =
at 9:12 AM, Rizzo, Jim <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:JRIZZO@provi=
dence.edu" target=3D"_blank">JRIZZO@providence.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1=
px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"white" lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hey everyone!<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">So I=E2=80=99m look=
ing for a little bit of advice and insight into what you all do with regard=
s to training your student employees. I know I=E2=80=99m not in a unique si=
tuation here, but I=E2=80=99ll tell you a little bit about my
Helpdesk and how we=E2=80=99ve been doing things.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Our helpdesk, like =
many others, is staffed almost entirely by students. In fact, there are onl=
y 2 full time employees, myself and one other employee of mine who works ni=
ghts. Like everyone else, the beginning
of the school year is the most difficult time for us, and having a partial=
ly staffed desk does not make things easier. Couple the understaffing with =
lack of training and it can be a nightmare.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">To make things easi=
er, I, like many of you, hold a training program at the end of the summer, =
bringing my students back to campus a week early to train and to assist wit=
h the general move-in days, which are,
admittedly, much easier than they used to be, but can still be stressful, =
especially when the freshmen move in. However, Providence College is a rela=
tively small school and most students get involved in other activities, man=
y of which require them to attend
programs prior to the start of the semester. These programs conflict with =
our training period. Add in students who make last minute vacation plans, a=
nd I end up with several who are unable to attend training. This ultimately=
results in a staff that isn=E2=80=99t ready
to hit the ground running at the start of the semester.<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">So my question for =
all of you is how do you handle those situations? I informed my staff of th=
e training dates in January so they would know to mark them on their calend=
ars, but they still haven=E2=80=99t. I have
a strongly worded email ready to send to them because I=E2=80=99m at my wi=
t=E2=80=99s end here. I=E2=80=99m not happy that so many have made other pl=
ans when they already had the dates. I can=E2=80=99t just go and prevent th=
em from working because I will have an even smaller staff. So what
do I do?!?! It=E2=80=99s extremely frustrating. I have a larger portion th=
an ever not attending, and adding in the fact that our Financial Aid office=
will not allow me to hire prior to the beginning of August means that I am=
very understaffed and undertrained at the
start of the fall semester (our busiest time of year).<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Jim<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">--=C2=
=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Jim Riz=
zo<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Helpdes=
k Manager<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Provide=
nce College Information Technology<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><a href=
=3D"tel:%28401%29%20865-1277" value=3D"+14018651277" target=3D"_blank">(401=
) 865-1277</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">AIM: JR=
izzoPC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><a href=
=3D"http://www.providence.edu/helpdesk" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"co=
lor:blue">http://www.providence.edu/helpdesk</span></a><u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><a h=
ref=3D"http://www.providence.edu/ihelp" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"co=
lor:blue">http://www.providence.edu/ihelp</span></a></span></u><span style=
=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black">Like us=
on Facebook!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;color:black"><a href=
=3D"http://www.facebook.com/ProvCollHelpDesk" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"color:blue">http://www.facebook.com/ProvCollHelpDesk</span></a><u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
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