[419] in UA Senate
Re: Link to NomComm legislation
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Daniel Hawkins)
Sat Feb 20 13:51:29 2010
Reply-To: hwkns@MIT.EDU
In-Reply-To: <345fee001002182225y3290477bn2aa9c316e5c4baea@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Feb 2010 13:51:25 -0500
From: Daniel Hawkins <hwkns@MIT.EDU>
To: Maggie Delano <maggied@mit.edu>
Cc: Ted Hilk <thilk@mit.edu>, UA Senate <ua-senate@mit.edu>
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I think some kind of clarification should be added. If you want missing
ex-officio positions to be filled in the fall, that should be made clear.
If it's intentionally vague on turnover in order to allow flexibility (which
is fine with me), that should be made clear. A lot of our documents are
vague, and we can't be sure if they were meant to be that way or if their
authors just suck.
I think the membership seems well-balanced between exec and senate. But
from the wording of the bill, it appears that anyone can join NomComm - is
that right? Shouldn't it read, "Additional 'at large' members are also free
to *apply to join* the committee..." ?
After some reading, I'm now concerned about the constitutionality of this
bill. What about Article IV, Section 1.3 of the Constitution?
"The election and appointment of the Chairman and the Vice-Chairman of all
> Standing committees
> of the Undergraduate Association shall not be considered valid without
> having received approval of
> the UA President and then the approval of a majority of the UA Senate."
>
To me, this means that even if this bill passes, Senate will have to vote to
approve or reject the VP and VC as the chair and vice chair of NomComm every
year. And what about Section 1.8?
"Unless otherwise specified in this Constitution or the Bylaws of the UA
> Senate, neither Executive
> Officers nor Principal officers of the Senate shall be allowed to chair any
> UA committee (exclusive of
> subcommittees and ad hoc committees). In addition, an individual may not
> chair more than one UA
> committee or subcommittee at a time. Under this subsection, a UA committee
> shall be defined as any
> committee enumerated in the Senate Bylaws. This rule may be suspended on an
> individual basis by a
> two-thirds vote of the Senate."
>
To me, this means that every year, when voting to approve VP and VC as the
chair and vice chair of NomComm, we would also have to suspend the bylaws
with a 2/3 vote to even consider them. This seems like a pain to me. Have
you thought of these issues? Do you have a plan to get around them? Am I
reading these documents wrong?
-hwkns
On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:25 AM, Maggie Delano <maggied@mit.edu> wrote:
> To get this conversation going a bit more before Senate Monday, where I
> intend to author this bill:
>
> Ted:My thoughts were VP + 2 exec = 3 exec, VS + 2 senate = 3 senate, do you
> disagree?
>
> Hawkins: I would say that Senators selected to help serve in the Spring
> would continue to serve until new Senators were appointed, either in the
> Fall or Spring of the following year. Do you think it would be helpful to
> state this explicitly? I think that it is probably okay for us to be
> somewhat lenient on when the Senate and Exec reps turn over.
>
> -Maggie
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Daniel Hawkins <hwkns@mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> I think this looks good. My only initial feedback is that you might want
>> to consider the effects of appointing people on that time line - senators in
>> the spring are not necessarily senators in the following fall, and that
>> messes with your statement about what the committee should "consist" of and
>> possibly makes NomComm less functional during the fall. Am I reading it
>> wrong, or is that an issue?
>>
>> -hwkns
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Ted Hilk <thilk@mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> I think this is a solid step toward solving the problem. The NomComm
>>> that it creates might be a bit exec-heavy, though. Has there traditionally
>>> been difficulty in finding enough Senate members to serve on it?
>>>
>>> Ted
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Maggie Delano <maggied@mit.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://web.mit.edu/maggied/Public/UA/nomcommreform.pdf
>>>>
>>>> -Maggie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Theodore Hilk
>>> Massachusetts Institute of Technology '13
>>> Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
>>> Sloan School of Management
>>> thilk@mit.edu | 913.375.6503
>>>
>>
>>
>
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I think some kind of clarification should be added.=A0 If you want missing =
ex-officio positions to be filled in the fall, that should be made clear.=
=A0 If it's intentionally vague on turnover in order to allow flexibili=
ty (which is fine with me), that should be made clear.=A0 A lot of our docu=
ments are vague, and we can't be sure if they were meant to be that way=
or if their authors just suck.<br>
<br>I think the membership seems well-balanced between exec and senate.=A0 =
But from the wording of the bill, it appears that anyone can join NomComm -=
is that right?=A0 Shouldn't it read, "Additional 'at large=
9; members are also free to <b>apply to join</b> the committee..." ?<b=
r>
<br>After some reading, I'm now concerned about the constitutionality o=
f this bill.=A0 What about Article IV, Section 1.3 of the Constitution?<br>=
<br><blockquote style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid =
rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">
"The election and appointment of the Chairman and the Vice-Chairman of=
all Standing committees<br>of the Undergraduate Association shall not be c=
onsidered valid without having received approval of<br>the UA President and=
then the approval of a majority of the UA Senate."<br>
</blockquote><br>To me, this means that even if this bill passes, Senate wi=
ll have to vote to approve or reject the VP and VC as the chair and vice ch=
air of NomComm every year.=A0 And what about Section 1.8?<br><br><blockquot=
e style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, =
204); padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">
"Unless otherwise specified in this Constitution or the Bylaws of the =
UA Senate, neither Executive<br>Officers nor Principal officers of the Sena=
te shall be allowed to chair any UA committee (exclusive of<br>subcommittee=
s and ad hoc committees). In addition, an individual may not chair more tha=
n one UA<br>
committee or subcommittee at a time. Under this subsection, a UA committee =
shall be defined as any<br>committee enumerated in the Senate Bylaws. This =
rule may be suspended on an individual basis by a<br>two-thirds vote of the=
Senate."<br>
</blockquote><br>To me, this means that every year, when voting to approve =
VP and VC as the chair and vice chair of NomComm, we would also have to sus=
pend the bylaws with a 2/3 vote to even consider them.=A0 This seems like a=
pain to me.=A0 Have you thought of these issues?=A0 Do you have a plan to =
get around them?=A0 Am I reading these documents wrong?<br>
<br>-hwkns<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 19, 2010 at 1:=
25 AM, Maggie Delano <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:maggied@mit.ed=
u">maggied@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204,=
204); padding-left: 1ex;">
To get this conversation going a bit more before Senate Monday, where I int=
end to author this bill:<br><br>Ted:My thoughts were VP + 2 exec =3D 3 exec=
, VS + 2 senate =3D 3 senate, do you disagree?<br><br>Hawkins: I would say =
that Senators selected to help serve in the Spring would continue to serve =
until new Senators were appointed, either in the Fall or Spring of the foll=
owing year. Do you think it would be helpful to state this explicitly? I th=
ink that it is probably okay for us to be somewhat lenient on when the Sena=
te and Exec reps turn over.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">
<br clear=3D"all">-Maggie</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:51 PM, Daniel =
Hawkins <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:hwkns@mit.edu" target=3D"_b=
lank">hwkns@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt=
0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I think this looks good.=A0 My only initial feedback is that you might want=
to consider the effects of appointing people on that time line - senators =
in the spring are not necessarily senators in the following fall, and that =
messes with your statement about what the committee should "consist&qu=
ot; of and possibly makes NomComm less functional during the fall.=A0 Am I =
reading it wrong, or is that an issue?<br>
<br>-hwkns<div><div></div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, F=
eb 8, 2010 at 10:30 PM, Ted Hilk <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:th=
ilk@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">thilk@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>I think this is a solid step toward solving the problem.=A0 The NomCom=
m that it creates might be a bit exec-heavy, though.=A0 Has there tradition=
ally been difficulty in finding enough Senate members to serve on it?</div>
<div><br>Ted</div><div><div></div><div>
<div><br>=A0</div>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Maggie Delano <=
span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:maggied@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">m=
aggied@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote"><a href=3D"http:/=
/web.mit.edu/maggied/Public/UA/nomcommreform.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://=
web.mit.edu/maggied/Public/UA/nomcommreform.pdf</a><br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br clear=3D"all">-Maggie<br><br></font></blockquot=
e></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br></div></div><font color=3D"#888888">-- <b=
r>Theodore Hilk<br>Massachusetts Institute of Technology '13<br>Departm=
ent of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science<br>
Sloan School of Management<br><a href=3D"mailto:thilk@mit.edu" target=3D"_b=
lank">thilk@mit.edu</a> | 913.375.6503<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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