[260] in UA Senate
Re: 41UAS4.1 "Final Authority"
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Ted Hilk)
Fri Nov 6 13:31:00 2009
In-Reply-To: <d2c0085f0911061008jffa857budd5ea36bc144735d@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 13:30:50 -0500
From: Ted Hilk <thilk@MIT.EDU>
To: Richard Dahan <rdahan@mit.edu>
Cc: Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>, UA Senate <ua-senate@mit.edu>
--001485f875761608ad0477b80bc9
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
"Senate shall have the power to delegate, or revoke
the delegation of, its financial authority, but it may,
in a timely fashion, overrule any decision of its delegate.
Senate may emplace such limitations, including notification
or waiting requirements, on the exercise of such delegated
power as it sees fit."
I tend to be averse to amending the constitution in a way that might tend to
transfer oversight away from a representative body and to a smaller
committee or even a single person. However, it seems that the bill will be
unconstitutional without such an amendment. That said, I feel that a slight
modification of the above should be made for greater specificity and
clarity:
"Senate shall have the power to delegate, or revoke
the delegation of, *any aspect of* its financial authority, but it may,
in a timely fashion, overrule any decision of its delegate.
Senate may emplace such limitations, including notification,
*advance approval*, or waiting requirements, on the exercise of such
delegated
power as it sees fit."
Otherwise, it gives the impression that such delegation is an all-or-nothing
action, and even if that is not the understanding in this year's Senate, it
might be in future ones. We should do our utmost to leave guidance for
future Senate members. Also, I want it to be clear that Senate is still
well within its rights to require advance approval, even though I do not
recommend doing so for this bill specifically.
Overall, I look at our constitution as a sort of firewall (perhaps Comodo's
"Defense+" is a better analogy) on permissible actions for different UA
members and internal organizations. When making firewall exceptions, one
should endeavor to minimize the extra permissions granted beyond what is
absolutely necessary, and make them as specific as possible.
If these amendments are made, I would be (cautiously) in support of this
bill. As I have said repeatedly, I am all in favor of freeing up extra
money for student groups when it doesn't cause significant harm to the UA
and could be more effectively used elsewhere. I just don't want to screw up
the balance of power (or anything else, for that matter) in the process.
There is nothing wrong with exercising caution in order to get things done
*correctly* the first time, even if it means "a dragging-out of the issue."
It's not as though this is particularly time-sensitive.
Ted Hilk
EC Senator
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Richard Dahan <rdahan@mit.edu> wrote:
> I personally hope that it does sail through Senate on Monday. I'm not 100%
> sure I like the whereas clauses, but I do indeed support the That clause,
> which I will focus on in this e-mail.
>
> This essentially gives the Senate more freedom without taking away power.
> It addresses all of the concerns I initially had with the bill. In a year
> when we have a great treasurer (like now), Senate can choose to delegate
> power; but when we don't, we're not forced to do anything. If we're worried
> about individual committees not doing their jobs, we can just emplace the
> appropriate "limitations," probably a combination notifications and waiting
> periods.
>
> The only situation for which this bill would be unwise is if in a given
> year, the Senate is lazy and delegates this responsibility to the treasurer
> and doesn't follow up, and the treasurer isn't on top of things, and the
> committees don't do their jobs. I chose to have faith in the UA that this
> will never happen, and even if it does, the UA will have bigger problems
> than this bill.
>
> Kudos to Alex for overcoming opposition in Senate and persevering over a
> dragging-out of the issue to produce what I consider a fine piece of
> legislation. Great job indeed.
>
> I hope the senators reading this will take these arguments into account
> when deciding whether or not to vote for this on Monday, or how long to
> debate before voting. I personally see nothing wrong with this, but I of
> course would love to hear your reasoning if you disagree.
>
> - RIchard
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> Did anyone have any thoughts about this bill? Or questions about why it is
>> good? Or... anything else?
>>
>> Should I be assuming from the silence that nobody has issues, and it'll
>> sail through Senate on Monday (once it (hopefully) gets off the table)? I
>> mean, I wouldn't mind that... I'm just a little doubtful.
>>
>> ~~Alex
>>
>>
>> Alex Dehnert wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry about how late this is getting out... As I mentioned in my FPRC
>>> email, I've been distracted by various things (including by the FPRC, at
>>> least from cleaning up 4.1...).
>>>
>>> Fundamentally, I believe that Senate should be able to delegate authority
>>> in general, not just because of the reallocation bill. The reallocation bill
>>> is itself a fairly minor thing --- it'd sway a couple thousand dollars (out
>>> of about a hundred thousand dollars) to student groups. If the bill doesn't
>>> pass, I won't actually be very sad (among other reasons, I'm not actually in
>>> many student groups that get money from Finboard, so I'm only barely
>>> personally affected by this...).
>>>
>>> Anyway... I've expanded on some of my reasoning in new whereas clauses,
>>> at
>>> http://web.mit.edu/ua/officers/treasurer/Public/FY10/2009-10-moving-money/constitution.pdf.
>>>
>>>
>>> New clauses:
>>> \whereas{it may be more productive for Senate to delegate its financial
>>> authority in certain matters}
>>> \whereas{it is not a productive use of the Senate's time to micromanage
>>> and debate certain matters}
>>> \whereas{Senate may have better things to do than carefully examine small
>>> allocations and reallocations}
>>> \whereas{such better things may include examining reports such as the DPC
>>> report and
>>> the UA ``Response to the Institute-wide Planning Task Force Preliminary
>>> Report'',
>>> which may impact long-term Institute policy}
>>> \whereas{such better things may include examining reports such as the
>>> Financial Policy Review Committee's report and the Constitution
>>> Committee's report
>>> which are likely to impact long-term UA policy}
>>> \whereas{such better things may also include proactively setting the UA's
>>> policy,
>>> including setting broad financial policy or advocacy goals}
>>>
>>> That clause (slightly modified):
>>> ``The Senate shall have final authority over the allocation
>>> or reallocation of the financial resources of
>>> this Association and its subsidiary organizations.
>>> \textbf{Senate shall have the power to delegate, or revoke
>>> the delegation of, its financial authority, but it may,
>>> in a timely fashion, overrule any decision of its delegate.
>>> Senate may emplace such limitations, including notification
>>> or waiting requirements, on the exercise of such delegated
>>> power as it sees fit.}
>>> In addition, it shall require a two- thirds vote of the
>>> Senate to authorize the release of funds for expenditure
>>> from the Undergraduate Dues Reserve and
>>> Contingent (invested reserve).''
>>>
>>> ~~Alex
>>>
>>
>
--001485f875761608ad0477b80bc9
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif, &=
#39;Arial Unicode MS'; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; ">&q=
uot;Senate shall have the power to delegate, or revoke<br>the delegation of=
, its financial authority, but it may,<br>
in a timely fashion, overrule any decision of its delegate.<br>Senate may e=
mplace such limitations, including notification<br>or waiting requirements,=
on the exercise of such delegated<br>power as it sees fit."</span><br=
>
<br><div>I tend to be averse to amending the constitution in a way that mig=
ht tend to transfer oversight away from a representative body and to a smal=
ler committee or even a single person. =A0However, it seems that the bill w=
ill be unconstitutional without such an amendment. =A0That said, I feel tha=
t a slight modification of the above should be made for greater specificity=
and clarity:</div>
<div><br></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: =
arial, sans-serif, 'Arial Unicode MS'; font-size: 13px; border-coll=
apse: collapse; ">"Senate shall have the power to delegate, or revoke<=
br>
the delegation of, <b>any aspect of</b> its financial authority, but it may=
,<br>in a timely fashion, overrule any decision of its delegate.<br>Senate =
may emplace such limitations, including notification,</span></div><div>
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"font-family: arial, sans-serif, &=
#39;Arial Unicode MS'; font-size: 13px; border-collapse: collapse; "><b=
>advance approval</b>,=A0or waiting requirements, on the exercise of such d=
elegated<br>
power as it sees fit."</span><br></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style=
-span" face=3D"arial, sans-serif, 'Arial Unicode MS'"><span class=
=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></fon=
t></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial, sans-serif, 'Arial=
Unicode MS'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse=
: collapse;">Otherwise, it gives the impression that such delegation is an =
all-or-nothing action, and even if that is not the understanding in this ye=
ar's Senate, it might be in future ones. =A0We should do our utmost to =
leave guidance for future Senate members. =A0Also, I want it to be clear th=
at Senate is still well within its rights to require advance approval, even=
though I do not recommend doing so for this bill specifically.</span></fon=
t></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial, sans-serif, 'Arial=
Unicode MS'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse=
: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"arial, sans-serif, 'Arial Unicode MS'"><span class=3D"Apple=
-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">Overall, I look at our co=
nstitution as a sort of firewall (perhaps Comodo's "Defense+"=
is a better analogy) on permissible actions for different UA members and i=
nternal organizations. =A0When making firewall exceptions, one should endea=
vor to minimize the extra permissions granted beyond what is absolutely nec=
essary, and make them as specific as possible.<br>
</span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial, sa=
ns-serif, 'Arial Unicode MS'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" styl=
e=3D"border-collapse: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=
=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial, sans-serif, 'Arial Unicode MS'=
"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">If =
these amendments are made, I would be (cautiously) in support of this bill.=
=A0As I have said repeatedly, I am all in favor of freeing up extra money =
for student groups when it doesn't cause significant harm to the UA and=
could be more effectively used elsewhere. =A0I just don't want to scre=
w up the balance of power (or anything else, for that matter) in the proces=
s. =A0There is nothing wrong with exercising caution in order to get things=
done <b>correctly</b> the first time, even if it means "a dragging-ou=
t of the issue." =A0It's not as though this is particularly time-s=
ensitive.</span></font></div>
<div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" face=3D"arial, sans-serif, 'Arial=
Unicode MS'"><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse=
: collapse;"><br></span></font></div><div><font class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
face=3D"arial, sans-serif, 'Arial Unicode MS'"><span class=3D"Apple=
-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">Ted Hilk</span></font></d=
iv>
<div>EC Senator</div><div><br></div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On =
Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 1:08 PM, Richard Dahan <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D=
"mailto:rdahan@mit.edu">rdahan@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote=
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc soli=
d;padding-left:1ex;">
I personally hope that it does sail through Senate on Monday. I'm not 1=
00% sure I like the whereas clauses, but I do indeed support the That claus=
e, which I will focus on in this e-mail.=A0<div><br></div><div>This essenti=
ally gives the Senate more freedom without taking away power. It addresses =
all of the concerns I initially had with the bill. In a year when we have a=
great treasurer (like now), Senate can choose to delegate power; but when =
we don't, we're not forced to do anything. If we're worried abo=
ut individual committees not doing their jobs, we can just emplace the appr=
opriate "limitations," probably a combination notifications and w=
aiting periods.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The only situation for which this bill would be unwise =
is if in a given year, the Senate is lazy and delegates this responsibility=
to the treasurer and doesn't follow up, <span style=3D"font-style:ital=
ic">and</span> the treasurer isn't on top of things, <span style=3D"fon=
t-style:italic">and</span> the committees don't do their jobs. I chose =
to have faith in the UA that this will never happen, and even if it does, t=
he UA will have bigger problems than this bill.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Kudos to Alex for overcoming opposition in Senate and p=
ersevering over a dragging-out of the issue to produce what I consider a fi=
ne piece of legislation. Great job indeed.</div><div><br></div><div>I hope =
the senators reading this will take these arguments into account when decid=
ing whether or not to vote for this on Monday, or how long to debate before=
voting. I personally see nothing wrong with this, but I of course would lo=
ve to hear your reasoning if you disagree.</div>
<div><br></div><font color=3D"#888888"><div>- RIchard</div></font><div><div=
></div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, No=
v 6, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Alex Dehnert <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto=
:adehnert@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">adehnert@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:=
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Did anyone have any thoughts about this bill? Or questions about why it is =
good? Or... anything else?<br>
<br>
Should I be assuming from the silence that nobody has issues, and it'll=
sail through Senate on Monday (once it (hopefully) gets off the table)? I =
mean, I wouldn't mind that... I'm just a little doubtful.<br><font =
color=3D"#888888">
<br>
~~Alex</font><div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
Alex Dehnert wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Sorry about how late this is getting out... As I mentioned in my FPRC email=
, I've been distracted by various things (including by the FPRC, at lea=
st from cleaning up 4.1...).<br>
<br>
Fundamentally, I believe that Senate should be able to delegate authority i=
n general, not just because of the reallocation bill. The reallocation bill=
is itself a fairly minor thing --- it'd sway a couple thousand dollars=
(out of about a hundred thousand dollars) to student groups. If the bill d=
oesn't pass, I won't actually be very sad (among other reasons, I&#=
39;m not actually in many student groups that get money from Finboard, so I=
'm only barely personally affected by this...).<br>
<br>
Anyway... I've expanded on some of my reasoning in new whereas clauses,=
at <a href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/ua/officers/treasurer/Public/FY10/2009-10=
-moving-money/constitution.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://web.mit.edu/ua/off=
icers/treasurer/Public/FY10/2009-10-moving-money/constitution.pdf</a>. <br>
<br>
New clauses:<br>
\whereas{it may be more productive for Senate to delegate its financial aut=
hority in certain matters}<br>
\whereas{it is not a productive use of the Senate's time to micromanage=
and debate certain matters}<br>
\whereas{Senate may have better things to do than carefully examine small a=
llocations and reallocations}<br>
\whereas{such better things may include examining reports such as the DPC r=
eport and<br>
the UA ``Response to the Institute-wide Planning Task Force Preliminary Rep=
ort'',<br>
which may impact long-term Institute policy}<br>
\whereas{such better things may include examining reports such as the<br>
Financial Policy Review Committee's report and the Constitution Committ=
ee's report<br>
which are likely to impact long-term UA policy}<br>
\whereas{such better things may also include proactively setting the UA'=
;s policy,<br>
including setting broad financial policy or advocacy goals}<br>
<br>
That clause (slightly modified):<br>
``The Senate shall have final authority over the allocation<br>
=A0or reallocation of the financial resources of<br>
this Association and its subsidiary organizations.<br>
\textbf{Senate shall have the power to delegate, or revoke<br>
the delegation of, its financial authority, but it may,<br>
in a timely fashion, overrule any decision of its delegate.<br>
Senate may emplace such limitations, including notification<br>
or waiting requirements, on the exercise of such delegated<br>
power as it sees fit.}<br>
In addition, it shall require a two- thirds vote of the<br>
Senate to authorize the release of funds for expenditure<br>
from the Undergraduate Dues Reserve and<br>
Contingent (invested reserve).''<br>
<br>
~~Alex<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
--001485f875761608ad0477b80bc9--
