[193] in UA Senate
Re: 41UAS2.3: Bill to Authorize the Treasurer to Reallocate Money to
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Ted Hilk)
Sun Oct 25 14:36:48 2009
In-Reply-To: <4ADE3091.2030500@mit.edu>
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:36:32 -0400
From: Ted Hilk <thilk@MIT.EDU>
To: Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>
Cc: Paul Youchak <youchakp@mit.edu>, Sammi Wyman <swyman@mit.edu>,
Alexandra Jordan <amjordan@mit.edu>, UA Senate <ua-senate@mit.edu>
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As of this instant, I believe that all of my primary concerns have been
addressed by the version of the bill that is posted at
http://web.mit.edu/ua/officers/treasurer/Public/FY10/2009-10-moving-money/moving-money.pdfright
now. It fixes the issues concerning power of the purse, budgetary
records-keeping, and specific authority to authorize reallocation, and seems
much more precise. Assuming no changes to the wording or presently-unknown
misunderstandings on my part, I would be very likely to speak and vote in
its support at the next meeting. I still have some apprehension about what
Alex Jordan said regarding the cancellation of entire line items, but recall
that Senate can easily reverse such things if they are found objectionable
to its members.
Thank you,
Ted Hilk
On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu> wrote:
> Paul Youchak wrote:
>
>> To statement 2.
>>
>> This happens anyways, money doesn't get spent and the budget is not always
>> accurate to what occurs. Furthermore, any changes will need to be accounted
>> for in FinBoard's budget for the next semester. FinBoard will not be
>> spending more than what they were allocated in for the current semester,
>> they simply will be able to allocate more in the next semester (which we
>> will be able to see on their budget).
>>
>
> Uh... Finboard sort of will be... However, the allocations proposal as
> presented to Senate should be able to include the allocations max they were
> working under (ie, after reallocation).
>
> Remember that Fall budget includes the amount that Finboard provides
> recommendations for spending in the Spring semester.
>
>
>> Question, does the budget get updated throughout the semester? At the end
>> do we publish what we actually spent?
>>
>
> Not historically, to my knowledge. I intend to provide an end-of-semester
> report, and possibly updates during the semester.
>
> ~~Alex
>
>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sammi Wyman wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Alex (jordan), that's not true- senate must be informed, but they
>>> don't need to approve it. Do you mean that they should have approval?
>>>
>>> 2. I think we SHOULD be changing the budget if this reallocation is
>>> happening. I don't like the idea of having a published budget with
>>> different amounts in it than have been spent. If the budget says FinBoard
>>> can allocate 100,000 dollars, they shouldn't allocate more than that. If we
>>> move this unused money to a FinBoard allocation pool, it needs to be a
>>> change in the budget. I know that these changes aren't really sneaky or
>>> malicious but it seems wrong to do something different than what the budget
>>> says.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Alexandra Jordan wrote:
>>>
>>> I sort of already addressed this with Paul's comments earlier, but my
>>>> MAIN CONCERN is that Senate approved a budget intending that SPECIFIC
>>>> PROJECTS be completed. If the committee and Chair no longer see those
>>>> projects as viable or worthwhile, then Senate should BE INFORMED in a formal
>>>> manner, in which discussion takes place. With the current bill, the Chair
>>>> and Treasurer could change the planned impact of the committee without ever
>>>> informing Senate. That is why I don't think the Chair and Treasurer should
>>>> be able to change line items without at least presenting the changes to
>>>> Senate, if no seeking the approval of Senate.
>>>>
>>>> Alex
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 2:57 AM, Alex Dehnert wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Alexandra Jordan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Senators.
>>>>>> I would like to submit two points for you to consider before we
>>>>>> discuss this bill at the next meeting:
>>>>>> 1. Approving this bill would allow Committee Chairs and the Treasurer
>>>>>> to completely eliminate certain line items from the budget. If the Senate
>>>>>> approves $800 to Committee A for a project, then that means Senate has
>>>>>> placed value in this project and expects it to at least be attempted, if not
>>>>>> completed. I believe that this possibility, of eliminating line items for
>>>>>> entire projects, is distinct from simply transferring over excess funds from
>>>>>> completed projects. I do not think that two people should be able to change
>>>>>> the budget in this way without the approval of Senate.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In my opinion, if the committee chair doesn't intend to complete the
>>>>> project, then they probably won't --- forcing them to hold on to the money
>>>>> seems unlikely to change anything. Between that and the explicitness with
>>>>> which overruling is now allowed, I don't really think any action is needed
>>>>> here.
>>>>>
>>>>> ~~Alex
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________
>>>> Alexandra Jordan
>>>>
>>>> MIT 2011
>>>> Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science
>>>> Political Science
>>>>
>>>> amjordan@mit.edu
>>>> 916.813.7740
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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As of this instant, I believe that all of my primary concerns have been add=
ressed by the version of the bill that is posted at <a href=3D"http://web.m=
it.edu/ua/officers/treasurer/Public/FY10/2009-10-moving-money/moving-money.=
pdf">http://web.mit.edu/ua/officers/treasurer/Public/FY10/2009-10-moving-mo=
ney/moving-money.pdf</a> right now.=A0 It fixes the issues concerning power=
of the purse, budgetary records-keeping, and specific authority to authori=
ze reallocation, and seems much more precise.=A0 Assuming no changes to the=
wording or presently-unknown misunderstandings on my part, I would be very=
likely to speak and vote in its support at the next meeting.=A0 I still ha=
ve some apprehension about what Alex Jordan said regarding the cancellation=
of entire line items, but recall that Senate can easily reverse such thing=
s if they are found objectionable to its members.<br>
<br>Thank you,<br>Ted Hilk<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Oc=
t 20, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Alex Dehnert <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto=
:adehnert@mit.edu">adehnert@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); mar=
gin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">Paul Youchak wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
To statement 2.<br>
<br>
This happens anyways, money doesn't get spent and the budget is not alw=
ays accurate to what occurs. =A0Furthermore, any changes will need to be ac=
counted for in FinBoard's budget for the next semester. =A0FinBoard wil=
l not be spending more than what they were allocated in for the current sem=
ester, they simply will be able to allocate more in the next semester (whic=
h we will be able to see on their budget).<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Uh... Finboard sort of will be... However, the allocations proposal as pres=
ented to Senate should be able to include the allocations max they were wor=
king under (ie, after reallocation).<br>
<br>
Remember that Fall budget includes the amount that Finboard provides recomm=
endations for spending in the Spring semester.<div class=3D"im"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Question, does the budget get updated throughout the semester? =A0At the en=
d do we publish what we actually spent?<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
Not historically, to my knowledge. I intend to provide an end-of-semester r=
eport, and possibly updates during the semester.<br><font color=3D"#888888"=
>
<br>
~~Alex</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Sammi Wyman wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
1. Alex (jordan), that's not true- senate must be informed, but they do=
n't need to approve it. =A0Do you mean that they should have approval?<=
br>
<br>
2. I think we SHOULD be changing the budget if this reallocation is happeni=
ng. =A0I don't like the idea of having a published budget with differen=
t amounts in it than have been spent. =A0If the budget says FinBoard can al=
locate 100,000 dollars, they shouldn't allocate more than that. =A0If w=
e move this unused money to a FinBoard allocation pool, it needs to be a ch=
ange in the budget. I know that these changes aren't really sneaky or m=
alicious but it seems wrong to do something different than what the budget =
says.<br>
<br>
<br>
On Oct 20, 2009, at 12:14 PM, Alexandra Jordan wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I sort of already addressed this with Paul's comments earlier, but my M=
AIN CONCERN is that Senate approved a budget intending that SPECIFIC PROJEC=
TS be completed. If the committee and Chair no longer see those projects as=
viable or worthwhile, then Senate should BE INFORMED in a formal manner, i=
n which discussion takes place. With the current bill, the Chair and Treasu=
rer could change the planned impact of the committee without ever informing=
Senate. That is why I don't think the Chair and Treasurer should be ab=
le to change line items without at least presenting the changes to Senate, =
if no seeking the approval of Senate.<br>
<br>
Alex<br>
<br>
On Oct 20, 2009, at 2:57 AM, Alex Dehnert wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Alexandra Jordan wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
Hi Senators.<br>
I would like to submit two points for you to consider before we discuss thi=
s bill at the next meeting:<br>
1. Approving this bill would allow Committee Chairs and the Treasurer to co=
mpletely eliminate certain line items from the budget. If the Senate approv=
es $800 to Committee A for a project, then that means Senate has placed val=
ue in this project and expects it to at least be attempted, if not complete=
d. I believe that this possibility, of eliminating line items for entire pr=
ojects, is distinct from simply transferring over excess funds from complet=
ed projects. I do not think that two people should be able to change the bu=
dget in this way without the approval of Senate.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
In my opinion, if the committee chair doesn't intend to complete the pr=
oject, then they probably won't --- forcing them to hold on to the mone=
y seems unlikely to change anything. Between that and the explicitness with=
which overruling is now allowed, I don't really think any action is ne=
eded here.<br>
<br>
~~Alex<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
__________________________________<br>
Alexandra Jordan<br>
<br>
MIT 2011<br>
Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science<br>
Political Science<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:amjordan@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">amjordan@mit.edu</a><=
br>
916.813.7740<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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