[1586] in UA Senate
Re: Restructuring
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Alec Lai (Next House President))
Sat Nov 26 16:19:03 2011
In-Reply-To: <9356C53A-CE21-46FD-AE25-13CA4FFC92BC@mit.edu>
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 2011 16:18:57 -0500
From: "Alec Lai (Next House President)" <next-president@MIT.EDU>
To: Ryan T Normandin <ryno17@mit.edu>
Cc: Michael P Walsh <mpwalsh@mit.edu>, Leonid Grinberg <leonidg@mit.edu>,
"ua-senate@mit.edu" <ua-senate@mit.edu>
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I would like to amend that to...I would hope that the revised proposal is
sent to us *immediately*, as we have only around 2 days left to review the
new proposal. I also hope the restructuring committee has met or will meet
sometime between the last Senate meeting and this one to talk about these
amendments.
I would also note that, even if Senate does not wish to consider my
proposal, Section 5 (page 7) lists all my proposed amendments to the
Constitution, including a non-periodic clause and the existence of DormCon.
Similar to Ryan, though, I would like to at least see the following (or
good reasons as to why these recommendations are not worth it):
1. Ratification by the new Council
2. Presidents of all constituencies can appoint delegates. (as Ryan said)
3. The UA President should not be mandated to chair the UA Council.
As for the concept of "opt in" vs. "opt out." "Opt out" makes it look like
Presidents are obligated to sit on the Council as part of their jobs,
making it seem like "a burden of the job" and interferes with the concept
of some dorm Presidents being the point of contact for internal matters.
"Opt in" assumes they are choosing this position because they want to take
on the responsibility. Put another way, the difference is between "you
should do this because it's your job" vs. "I want to take on this job," the
latter I think is better for a volunteer-based organization like
university/college student government.
In a more practical example, I want to avoid the
impression/argument-to-be-made of "that President is incompetent or lazy
because he/she opted out" when it may not be the case. Opting in lowers
the chance for that argument and changes it to a more positive perspective.
Best,
Alec
On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Ryan T Normandin <ryno17@mit.edu> wrote:
> Agreed; I misspoke. To clarify, the two amendments that I wanted to see
> would apply to all Council members, not just Dorm Reps.
>
> Furthermore, I would hope that the revised proposal is sent to us before
> Monday. Senate needs time to review the new proposal before making such an
> important decision.
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> --
> Ryan Normandin
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> Department of Physics
> Class of 2013 | <ryno17@mit.edu>ryno17@mit.edu
>
> Sent from my iPod
>
> On Nov 26, 2011, at 3:17 PM, "Michael P Walsh" <mpwalsh@mit.edu> wrote:
>
> One other thing I would like to add. When proposing amendments to the
> constitution, I would try to avoid singling out a specific constituency
> group. If we want to allow the representative from DormCon to split their
> votes, we should consider it for *all* the representatives, including
> IFC, Panhel and LGC.****
>
> ** **
>
> Michael****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Leonid Grinberg [mailto:leonidg@MIT.EDU]
> *Sent:* Saturday, November 26, 2011 3:02 PM
> *To:* Ryan T Normandin
> *Cc:* <ua-senate@mit.edu>ua-senate@mit.edu
> *Subject:* Re: Restructuring****
>
> ** **
>
> I would also be happy to support this proposal with these two changes in
> place. With regard to #1 in particular, I think it would be better for dorm
> presidents to "opt out" of representing their dorm on the Council, rather
> than "opt in" like Alec proposes.****
>
> ** **
>
> Leonid****
>
> On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 14:20, Ryan T Normandin < <ryno17@mit.edu>
> ryno17@mit.edu> wrote:****
>
> Hi Senate,
>
> Since we are meeting tomorrow to decide on whether or not to
> completely restructure the undergraduate government and there has been no
> discussion on this list, I figured I'd start.
>
> The current proposal addresses many of the concerns that I and
> those I've spoken to have had regarding the UA. Before I vote for this
> proposal, however, I would like to see the following two changes:
>
> 1) Dorm Presidents can appoint delegates to serve in their place on the UA
> Council.
>
> 2) Dorm Presidents can split their votes during population votes.
>
> I'm also eager to hear your thoughts on the "compromise" proposal
> sent to this list be Alec Lai.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Ryan Normandin
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> Department of Physics
> Class of 2013 | <ryno17@mit.edu>ryno17@mit.edu
>
> Sent from my iPod****
>
> ** **
>
>
--
Best,
Alec C. Lai
Next House President
next-president@mit.edu | (440)454-2942
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I would like to amend that to...I would hope that the revised proposal is s=
ent to us <u>immediately</u>, as we have only around 2 days left to review =
the new proposal. =A0I also hope the restructuring committee has met or wil=
l meet sometime between the last Senate meeting and this one to talk about =
these amendments.<div>
<br></div><div>I would also note that, even if Senate does not wish to cons=
ider my proposal, Section 5 (page 7) lists all my proposed amendments to th=
e Constitution, including a non-periodic clause and the existence of DormCo=
n. =A0Similar=A0to Ryan, though, I would like to at least see the following=
(or good reasons as to why these recommendations are not worth it):</div>
<div><ol><li>Ratification by the new Council</li><li>Presidents of all cons=
tituencies can appoint delegates. (as Ryan said)</li><li>The UA President s=
hould not be mandated to chair the UA Council.</li></ol><div>As for the con=
cept of "opt in" vs. "opt out." =A0"Opt out" =
makes it look like Presidents are obligated to sit on the Council as part o=
f their jobs, making it seem like "a burden of the job" and inter=
feres with the concept of some dorm Presidents being the point of contact f=
or internal matters. =A0"Opt in" assumes they are choosing this p=
osition because they want to take on the responsibility. =A0Put another way=
, the difference is between "you should do this because it's your =
job" vs. "I want to take on this job," the latter I think is=
better for a volunteer-based organization like university/college student =
government.</div>
<div><br></div><div>In a more practical example, I want to avoid the impres=
sion/argument-to-be-made of "that President is incompetent or lazy bec=
ause he/she opted out" when it may not be the case. =A0Opting in lower=
s the chance for that argument and changes it to a more positive perspectiv=
e.</div>
</div><div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Alec<br><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote">On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Ryan T Normandin <span dir=3D"l=
tr"><<a href=3D"mailto:ryno17@mit.edu">ryno17@mit.edu</a>></span> wro=
te:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div>Agreed; I mis=
spoke. To clarify, the two amendments that I wanted to see would apply to a=
ll Council members, not just Dorm Reps.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Furthermore, I would hope that the revised proposal is =
sent to us before Monday. Senate needs time to review the new proposal befo=
re making such an important decision.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
<div>Best,<div class=3D"im"><br><br><div><span>--</span></div><div>Ryan Nor=
mandin</div><div>Massachusetts Institute of Technology</div><div>Department=
of Physics</div><div>Class of 2013 | <a href=3D"mailto:ryno17@mit.edu" tar=
get=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"mailto:ryno17@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">ryno=
17@mit.edu</a></div>
<div><br></div>Sent from my iPod</div></div><div><div class=3D"h5"><div><br=
>On Nov 26, 2011, at 3:17 PM, "Michael P Walsh" <<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:mpwalsh@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">mpwalsh@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br><=
br>
</div><div></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"=
><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans=
-serif";color:#1f497d">One other thing I would like to add.=A0 When pr=
oposing amendments to the constitution, I would try to avoid singling out a=
specific constituency group.=A0 If we want to allow the representative fro=
m DormCon to split their votes, we should consider it for <i>all</i> the re=
presentatives, including IFC, Panhel and LGC.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
;Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Michael<u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Ca=
libri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u>=A0<u></u></span><=
/p><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&q=
uot;Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Leoni=
d Grinberg [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:leonidg@MIT.EDU" target=3D"_blank">leo=
nidg@MIT.EDU</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, November 26, 2011 3:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Ryan T Norma=
ndin<br><b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:ua-senate@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank"><=
/a><a href=3D"mailto:ua-senate@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">ua-senate@mit.edu=
</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Restructuring<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class=3D"MsoNo=
rmal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p><p class=3D"MsoNormal">I would also be happy to =
support this proposal with these two changes in place. With regard to #1 in=
particular, I think it would be better for dorm presidents to "opt ou=
t" of representing their dorm on the Council, rather than "opt in=
" like Alec proposes.<u></u><u></u></p>
<div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=A0<u></u></p></div><div><p class=3D"Mso=
Normal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt">Leonid<u></u><u></u></p><div><p clas=
s=3D"MsoNormal">On Sat, Nov 26, 2011 at 14:20, Ryan T Normandin <<a href=
=3D"mailto:ryno17@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D"mailto:ryno17@m=
it.edu" target=3D"_blank">ryno17@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Senate,<br><br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Since we are me=
eting tomorrow to decide on whether or not to completely restructure the un=
dergraduate government and there has been no discussion on this list, I fig=
ured I'd start.<br>
<br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0The current proposal addresses many of the concerns =
that I and those I've spoken to have had regarding the UA. Before I vot=
e for this proposal, however, I would like to see the following two changes=
:<br><br>
1) Dorm Presidents can appoint delegates to serve in their place on the UA =
Council.<br><br>2) Dorm Presidents can split their votes during population =
votes.<br><br>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I'm also eager to hear your thoughts o=
n the "compromise" proposal sent to this list be Alec Lai.<br>
<br><br>Thanks,<br><span style=3D"color:#888888"><br>--<br>Ryan Normandin<b=
r>Massachusetts Institute of Technology<br>Department of Physics<br>Class o=
f 2013 | <a href=3D"mailto:ryno17@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank"></a><a href=3D=
"mailto:ryno17@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">ryno17@mit.edu</a><br>
<br>Sent from my iPod</span><u></u><u></u></p></div><p class=3D"MsoNormal">=
<u></u>=A0<u></u></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blo=
ckquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Best,<div>Alec C.=
Lai<div>
Next House President</div><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"mailto:next-presid=
ent@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">next-president@mit.edu</a>=A0| (440)454-2942=
</div></div><div><br></div><br>
</div></div>
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