[1289] in UA Senate
Re: Laptops
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Karan Takhar)
Sun Apr 24 13:23:03 2011
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.2.00.1104241317430.18820@lunatique.mit.edu>
Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 13:23:01 -0400
From: Karan Takhar <kstakhar4691@gmail.com>
To: Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu>
Cc: Michael E Plasmeier <theplaz@mit.edu>, Timothy E Robertson <tim_r@mit.edu>,
Jonte Craighead <jontec@mit.edu>,
"ua-senate@mit.edu" <ua-senate@mit.edu>
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There is also the possibility that we keep this on the record and
subsequently get none or very little relevant information pertaining to the
activities of the study group. I am not advocating for off the record by an=
y
means, just pointing out that on the record with no information shared is a
similar outcome to off the record without being able to act on any
information.
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu> wrote:
> Sure, quite possible. But you should ask this explicitly. If they mean th=
at
> the information is public to the MIT community, I would like senators to =
be
> taking notes.
>
>
> --
> Geoffrey Thomas
> geofft@mit.edu
>
> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, Michael E Plasmeier wrote:
>
>
>> It seems to me that =93off the record=94 means that they do not want thi=
s to
>> appear in the Boston Globe, NYT, etc before they are ready to announce
>> something. Going before a body as large as Senate means that this is no=
t
>> highly classified. It seems that they are trying to get MIT community
>> feedback without having this leak to the outside world.
>>
>>
>>
>> I could be incorrect, so I agree with Tim=92s suggestion to ask the stud=
y
>> group to explain what they are trying to protect.
>>
>>
>>
>> -Michael
>>
>>
>>
>> From: timorob@gmail.com [mailto:timorob@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Timothy
>> Robertson
>> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:13 PM
>> To: Geoffrey G Thomas
>> Cc: Jonte Craighead; ua-senate@mit.edu
>> Subject: Re: Laptops
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not believe it is reasonable for us to remain off the record. I am
>> not
>> opposed to closed discussions, but I believe the Study Group should be
>> accountable to what they bring to the UA body. Additionally, if we stay
>> off
>> the record, I would like the Study Group to provide, at the minimum, a
>> public explanation of this request.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Geoffrey Thomas <geofft@mit.edu> wrote=
:
>>
>> What does "off the record" mean? As a constituennt, can I ask my senator
>> what happened and expect them to be able to reply in good conscience?
>>
>> I have bad memories of Blue Ribbon insisting its meetings were off the
>> record, and preventng me as a Dormcon member from having any idea of wha=
t
>> was going on (until the leaks and 40 UAS 6.4 and all that fun stuff).
>> MIT-Online is certainly more preliminary than BRDC was at that stage, bu=
t
>> also way more important. Is there some summary of the discussion they're
>> willing to approve? Can senators take persnal notes not on laptops?
>>
>> This is what affects a body's ability to be representative. Whether you
>> punt
>> on your computers past the Speaker's bedtime is just a question of time
>> management competence and respect, not representation.
>>
>> --
>> Geoffrey Thomas
>> geofft@mit.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, William Steadman wrote:
>>
>> If every representative were to make motions to: close discussion,
>> postpone, etc whenever they felt it was appropriate then you don't have
>> a meeting, you have 30 arguing about procedure.
>>
>> I don't walk into Senate trying to gauge the progress of a discussion
>> because that is not my job. My job as Chairman of Space Planning is to
>> provide appropriate info in that area. Gauging the progress of a
>> discussion is in fact the Speaker's job.
>>
>> I recommend the Speaker move to end discussion or even better call for a
>> motion from the assembly whenever he thinks discussion is not useful.
>> There is a reason he controls the length of debate time. Yet despite the
>> length of all of our meetings it has only been invoked once this year.
>>
>> On Sun, 2011-04-24 at 04:16 -0400, Jont=E9 Craighead (UA Speaker) wrote:
>>
>> Hi, guys:
>>
>> This is meant to be a notice for Monday's meeting.
>>
>> tl;dr: No laptops during the guest speaker and no laptops after
>> 11:00pm.
>>
>> The MIT-Online Faculty Study Group has asked that the entire session
>> at Monday's meeting take place off the record. Because of this, and
>> the fact that this group will be our guest, laptops must not be open.
>>
>> Furthermore, I am going to request that laptops also be closed during
>> any business that takes place after 11:00pm. If you have noticed
>> anything this year, it's that, usually, fewer than half of you are
>> paying attention to the discussion at once past about this time. If
>> the discussion on the floor is not interesting or useful, you should
>> do something about it (i.e. move to close discussion, postpone, etc.).
>> This is your Senate, you should own it. Otherwise, we run into
>> situations where a small number of participants are the only ones
>> driving the discussions (and effectively acting as the only student
>> representatives).
>>
>> Instituting this rule is not fun, but I feel it's necessary to keep
>> people engaged, or at the very least, ensure that our last three
>> meetings aren't also our longest.
>>
>> I would be happy to answer any questions here, but if you have
>> comments or want to start a discussion, please move this e-mail to
>> ua-senate@.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jont=E9 Craighead
>>
>> Speaker of the Senate
>> MIT Undergraduate Association
>> Course 1C: Class of 2013
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Tim Robertson II
>> MIT 2011
>> Mechanical Engineering
>> UA Senate Office Hours:
>> EC-B515 Sunday 5-8pm
>>
>>
>>
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=A0=A0 There is also the possibility that we keep this on the record and su=
bsequently get none or very little relevant information pertaining to the a=
ctivities of the study group. I am not advocating for off the record by any=
means, just pointing out that on the record with no information shared is =
a similar outcome to off the record without being able to act on any inform=
ation. <br>
<br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 1:18 PM, Geoffrey Th=
omas <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:geofft@mit.edu">geofft@mit.edu=
</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-lef=
t: 1ex;">
Sure, quite possible. But you should ask this explicitly. If they mean that=
the information is public to the MIT community, I would like senators to b=
e taking notes.<div class=3D"im"><br>
<br>
-- <br>
Geoffrey Thomas<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:geofft@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">geofft@mit.edu</a><br>
<br></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, Michael E Plasmeier wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
It seems to me that =93off the record=94 means that they do not want this t=
o<br>
appear in the Boston Globe, NYT, etc before they are ready to announce<br>
something.=A0 Going before a body as large as Senate means that this is not=
<br>
highly classified. It seems that they are trying to get MIT community<br>
feedback without having this leak to the outside world.<br>
<br>
=A0<br>
<br>
I could be incorrect, so I agree with Tim=92s suggestion to ask the study<b=
r>
group to explain what they are trying to protect.<br>
<br>
=A0<br>
<br>
-Michael<br>
<br>
=A0<br>
<br>
From: <a href=3D"mailto:timorob@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">timorob@gmail.=
com</a> [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:timorob@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">timo=
rob@gmail.com</a>] On Behalf Of Timothy<br>
Robertson<br>
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2011 1:13 PM<br>
To: Geoffrey G Thomas<br>
Cc: Jonte Craighead; <a href=3D"mailto:ua-senate@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank"=
>ua-senate@mit.edu</a><br>
Subject: Re: Laptops<br>
<br>
=A0<br>
<br>
I do not believe it is reasonable for us to remain off the record. I am not=
<br>
opposed to closed discussions, but I believe the Study Group should be<br>
accountable to what they bring to the UA body. Additionally, if we stay off=
<br>
the record, I would like the Study Group to provide, at the minimum, a<br>
public explanation of this request.<br>
<br>
On Sun, Apr 24, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Geoffrey Thomas <<a href=3D"mailto:geo=
fft@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">geofft@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
What does "off the record" mean? As a constituennt, can I ask my =
senator<br>
what happened and expect them to be able to reply in good conscience?<br>
<br>
I have bad memories of Blue Ribbon insisting its meetings were off the<br>
record, and preventng me as a Dormcon member from having any idea of what<b=
r>
was going on (until the leaks and 40 UAS 6.4 and all that fun stuff).<br>
MIT-Online is certainly more preliminary than BRDC was at that stage, but<b=
r>
also way more important. Is there some summary of the discussion they'r=
e<br>
willing to approve? Can senators take persnal notes not on laptops?<br>
<br>
This is what affects a body's ability to be representative. Whether you=
punt<br>
on your computers past the Speaker's bedtime is just a question of time=
<br>
management competence and respect, not representation.<br>
<br>
--<br>
Geoffrey Thomas<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:geofft@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">geofft@mit.edu</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 24 Apr 2011, William Steadman wrote:<br>
<br>
If every representative were to make motions to: close discussion,<br>
postpone, etc whenever they felt it was appropriate then you don't have=
<br>
a meeting, you have 30 arguing about procedure.<br>
<br>
I don't walk into Senate trying to gauge the progress of a discussion<b=
r>
because that is not my job. My job as Chairman of Space Planning is to<br>
provide appropriate info in that area. Gauging the progress of a<br>
discussion is in fact the Speaker's job.<br>
<br>
I recommend the Speaker move to end discussion or even better call for a<br=
>
motion from the assembly whenever he thinks discussion is not useful.<br>
There is a reason he controls the length of debate time. Yet despite the<br=
>
length of all of our meetings it has only been invoked once this year.<br>
<br>
On Sun, 2011-04-24 at 04:16 -0400, Jont=E9 Craighead (UA Speaker) wrote:<br=
>
<br>
Hi, guys:<br>
<br>
This is meant to be a notice for Monday's meeting.<br>
<br>
tl;dr: No laptops during the guest speaker and no laptops after<br>
11:00pm.<br>
<br>
The MIT-Online Faculty Study Group has asked that the entire session<br>
at Monday's meeting take place off the record. Because of this, and<br>
the fact that this group will be our guest, laptops must not be open.<br>
<br>
Furthermore, I am going to request that laptops also be closed during<br>
any business that takes place after 11:00pm. If you have noticed<br>
anything this year, it's that, usually, fewer than half of you are<br>
paying attention to the discussion at once past about this time. If<br>
the discussion on the floor is not interesting or useful, you should<br>
do something about it (i.e. move to close discussion, postpone, etc.).<br>
This is your Senate, you should own it. Otherwise, we run into<br>
situations where a small number of participants are the only ones<br>
driving the discussions (and effectively acting as the only student<br>
representatives).<br>
<br>
Instituting this rule is not fun, but I feel it's necessary to keep<br>
people engaged, or at the very least, ensure that our last three<br>
meetings aren't also our longest.<br>
<br>
I would be happy to answer any questions here, but if you have<br>
comments or want to start a discussion, please move this e-mail to<br>
ua-senate@.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Jont=E9 Craighead<br>
<br>
Speaker of the Senate<br>
MIT Undergraduate Association<br>
Course 1C: Class of 2013<br>
<br>
=A0<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Tim Robertson II<br>
MIT 2011<br>
Mechanical Engineering<br>
UA Senate Office Hours:<br>
EC-B515 Sunday 5-8pm<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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