[125] in UA Senate
Re: UA budgeting principles
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Paul Youchak)
Thu Oct 15 02:58:06 2009
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 02:57:45 -0400
From: Paul Youchak <youchakp@MIT.EDU>
To: Mike Bennie <mbennie@mit.edu>
CC: Alexandra Jordan <amjordan@mit.edu>, Janet Li <jli12@mit.edu>,
Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>, hwkns@mit.edu,
Jason Scott <jascott88@gmail.com>, Adam Bockelie <bockelie@mit.edu>,
Catherine Olsson <catherio@mit.edu>, Andrew Lukmann <lukymann@mit.edu>,
Alex Schwendner <alexrs@mit.edu>, ua-senate@mit.edu,
ua-discuss@mit.edu
In-Reply-To: <4AD6C4F7.6080904@mit.edu>
Wow,
I did not mean to start this thread (my bad), personally I actually do
feel spending money of food for us is completely acceptable. I will
take this as a lesson to not bring up topics such as these which may be
sensitive and have very little potential for any gain.
Furthermore, I believe Mike's email below raises some very good points
if one wants to find a way to justify our spending of food.
One last thing: I really don't think the Senate is that selfish and for
lack of better words incompetent. We would never revoke food for others
and feed ourselves.
Mike Bennie wrote:
> First, I'm glad to see the return of spirited discussion to my inbox
> this fall. It's great to see people ensuring that we spend our money
> in the best possible way, but let's remember that we are all here for
> the same reason: to serve the students.
>
> That being said, I have a few opinions of my own on this topic and
> after serving on Senate for 1.5 years (changed constituencies mid-year
> and had to resign), Exec for 1.5 years, and FinBoard for 2 years. I
> might not have seen it all, but I have certainly seen a lot.
>
> On the topic of class councils (and I will be brief), I think that the
> 2010 Class Council is an extraordinary council that has set a positive
> example and heavily influenced the class council system. I remember a
> couple years ago when the UA office would be littered with Cheesecake
> Factory boxes ($10-$15 an entree) from some of the older class
> councils. The reforming of the class councils led by the 2010's and
> SAO has been a major improvement to the system and has garnered the
> councils much more respect from the undergraduates. I agree that there
> are still a few issues that need to be resolved such as the 5-course
> meal that the Ring Committee enjoys after Ring Delivery, but we have
> some good momentum here. It is also unfair in a lot of ways to compare
> class councils and the rest of the UA (class councils are technically
> part of the UA). Class councils serve to run more of the fun, events
> based programs on campus. Therefore they have an easier time
> recruiting members to plan Senior Ball than we do trying to convince
> people to write policy reports.
>
> Although there is still debate about this among the principal
> officers, I would argue that the money we collect from Princeton
> Review and Kaplan for reserving rooms on campus is not "directly"
> student money. That is why I feel more comfortable spending it on
> items like food and the Senate retreat. This summer alone we collected
> $11,200 from those two companies which pays for our food for the
> entire year. In addition, we increased the UA's budget by $35,000 this
> year, $20,000 of which went primarily to student groups, however due
> to the lower overallocation percentage, the full benefits won't be
> felt until the economy returns. The argument can (and has been) made
> that classrooms rented out to companies reduce the supply for student
> groups, but I think that as long as we are careful to watch over the
> inventory of available classrooms this reduction should not be a major
> issue.
>
> If the argument is that we need to provide student groups more
> funding, I would raise two issues. The first is that once we allocate
> money to student groups, it tends to stick there. If we give student
> groups $110,000 this semester, then it isn't really political to give
> them $100,000 next semester. In that way, student group funding (at
> least from what I've seen over the past three years) tends to be a
> relatively monotonically increasing function. The second argument I
> would make is that we spend far less than the average student group on
> meeting food. Ask a member of FinBoard how much of the average student
> group budget is for food. We provide meeting food for a bunch of the
> groups that are FinBoard funded and there are certain guidelines that
> are followed. If we follow the logic that the UA needs to follow all
> FinBoard policies, than food is the least of our concerns. The Senate
> retreat is a glaring violation of FinBoard rules, but one that we have
> found is essential to the unity and productivity of the Senate for the
> year. If we cut our own food and give that money to student groups, at
> least a portion of that money is going to go into food that is almost
> certainly distributed in a much less open environment.
>
> The last point I want to make is that although we all have selfless
> motives for being here, there are other aspects to the UA that help us
> retain members. I like to use the Tech as an example organization
> because they require a high time commitment from their members and
> have a similar operating budget to the UA (although theirs fluctuates
> a lot more). If you were a freshman looking to join a student group
> and you had limited time, which one would you pick? The one that takes
> its staff on various trips around Boston, provides weekly dinners, has
> a RockBand set in the office, and has more free t-shirts than they
> know what to do with or the UA? There are several great people each
> year that truly love policy, but the other factors do come into play.
> Recruiting volunteers into the UA is hard work and we already invest a
> significant amount of time in it. I know that if we got rid of food
> that there wouldn't be a mass exodus of people from the UA, but it
> would make recruiting just a little bit harder.
>
> One last thing: if Senate provides food for themselves, but refuses to
> fund food for the rest of the UA, I would personally lose a lot of
> faith in Senate. I think it would definitely make a value statement
> that I am very uncomfortable with. I would hope that it is all or
> nothing.
>
> Best,
> Mike
>
> Paul Youchak wrote:
>> I believe we are having a foolish discussion in comparing what the
>> class councils do and what the UA does....
>>
>> Seriously, it is stupid.
>>
>> Alexandra Jordan wrote:
>>> I would say that meetings for Senate and committees are equally
>>> advertised online (committees have public google calendars
>>> announcing all meeting dates on each web page), with the only
>>> difference in advertising coming from emails from Senators to
>>> constituents, which varies on a case-by-case basis. It would be
>>> impractical for every committee to email the undergrads list before
>>> each meeting.
>>> I also think it's important to note that Senators represent far
>>> fewer people than executive committee members, who essentially
>>> represent the entire student body.
>>> Additionally, I'd argue that committees tend to deliver tangible
>>> results to the student body (look at any of the active committees
>>> like DPC, Athletics, Special Projects, etc., who have all completed
>>> large projects recently that benefit the entire undergraduate
>>> population) that more than encompass the value of food and office
>>> resources utilized by said committees.
>>> I agree that standardizing funds for food per person is reasonable.
>>> Alex Jordan
>>> Panhel Senator
>>> Chair, Committee on Sustainability
>>> Member, Committee on Dining
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:21 AM, Janet Li wrote:
>>>
>>>> Senate meetings are more broadcast to undergrads than committee
>>>> meetings are, at least in my experience. As an example, last year,
>>>> when I wasn't on the UA, the food did actually provide me with an
>>>> incentive to come to some of the Senate meetings and listen to the
>>>> guest speakers, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, to complement Paul's numbers, there are indeed serious
>>>> discrepancies in how much committees budget for food, from $400
>>>> total for 5-person meetings (Dining), to $135 total for 5-person
>>>> meetings (Space Planning). At least we could standardize how much
>>>> money we spend on food across all committees.
>>>> ---
>>>> Janet Li
>>>> MIT Class of 2012
>>>> Dept. of Biological Engineering
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu
>>>> <mailto:adehnert@mit.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If Senate chooses to ask that I do that, I'd ask that you either:
>>>> (1) Also ask me to remove food from Senate budget (I'm not sure
>>>> if you were counting Senate as a committee)
>>>> (2) Come up with a *really good* justification for why Senate
>>>> deserves it more.
>>>>
>>>> ~~Alex
>>>>
>>>> Janet Li wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I know I'm new, but I just think that committee meetings are
>>>> generally short
>>>> enough that no one should go too hungry during them... it
>>>> does seem a little
>>>> absurd to me that 14% of our budget goes to food to feed
>>>> OURSELVES. Sure,
>>>> the UA works hard and all, but we do it because we WANT to
>>>> help the
>>>> undergrads. And I just don't see how we're helping and
>>>> serving them by using
>>>> 14% of our enormous budget to pay for our own food. I would
>>>> like to suggest
>>>> that we remove food from all of the committees' budgets in
>>>> the future...
>>>> does anyone else agree at all?
>>>> ---
>>>> Janet Li
>>>> Baker Senator
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Alexandra Jordan
>>>> <amjordan@mit.edu <mailto:amjordan@mit.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I agree with Hawkins. The UA is a large organization,
>>>> that cumulatively
>>>> puts in hundreds of hours for the undergrads per week,
>>>> with some individuals
>>>> putting in well over even a normal 40 hour work week
>>>> during the more
>>>> stressful periods (example: Exec officers and the Budget
>>>> Task Force position
>>>> pieces, example: DPC report compilation). Providing
>>>> basics (like food, a
>>>> productive meeting space, etc.) for people to perform
>>>> work on behalf of
>>>> 4,000 students is completely within reason. If you're
>>>> looking to cut fat out
>>>> of the budget, it shouldn't be at the expense of the
>>>> quality of working
>>>> conditions for the people who are representing
>>>> undergraduates to the
>>>> administration to make life better at MIT. I also would
>>>> agree with Ashley's
>>>> assessment that student groups probably should fund
>>>> certain events or
>>>> capital expenditures from other means, not only to ensure
>>>> sustainability and
>>>> longevity of the group, but also because many small
>>>> student group expenses
>>>> benefit even fewer people than the UA food expenditures
>>>> we're discussing.
>>>> I also think it's relevant to recognize that the work of
>>>> the UA is on
>>>> behalf of all undergrads, whereas many of the groups we
>>>> fund benefit and
>>>> represent extremely small segments of the population.
>>>>
>>>> Alex Jordan
>>>>
>>>> benefit MIT
>>>> undergraduates. This might mean
>>>> that we spend the money
>>>> ourselves or
>>>> this might mean that we give it
>>>> to student groups who
>>>> can use it.
>>>> There are plenty of student
>>>> groups who do wonderful and
>>>> amazing
>>>> things. All of us can think of
>>>> student groups which get
>>>> much of their
>>>> funding from the UA which have
>>>> made our time at MIT more
>>>> worthwhile.
>>>> Our goal, as the UA, should not
>>>> be to do awesome things,
>>>> but rather to
>>>> see that awesome things get
>>>> done.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes, of course, this will
>>>> mean that we should
>>>> spend money on
>>>> projects conceived by the UA
>>>> and sometimes this will
>>>> mean that we
>>>> should give money to student
>>>> groups. However, there is a
>>>> natural,
>>>> institutional bias toward
>>>> spending the money ourselves.
>>>> We need to
>>>> fight that bias. Since we, the
>>>> UA, get first crack at
>>>> the money, it's
>>>> easy to think of cool things
>>>> which we can do with the
>>>> money while
>>>> forgetting about the very real
>>>> and very cool things
>>>> which student
>>>> groups will *not* be able to do
>>>> without that money. We
>>>> can see this
>>>> "mission creep" in UA funding
>>>> in the way that the money
>>>> allocated to
>>>> UA committees has increased in
>>>> past years. Yes, the UA
>>>> does more with
>>>> the increased money, but it is
>>>> not always clear that
>>>> it's spent better
>>>> than it could be spent by
>>>> student groups. The standards
>>>> which hold for
>>>> receiving funding from the UA
>>>> general budget should be
>>>> analogous to
>>>> the standards which hold for
>>>> receiving funding from UA
>>>> Finboard. I
>>>> will note that while UA
>>>> committees received basically
>>>> everything that
>>>> they asked for in the Fall UA
>>>> budget, student groups
>>>> which applied to
>>>> UA Finboard received less than
>>>> 30% of their requests in
>>>> the most
>>>> recent funding cycle.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, during the Spring
>>>> 2010 budgeting process, I
>>>> intend to push
>>>> for allocating more money for
>>>> student groups. Projects
>>>> which we choose
>>>> not to fund from the UA general
>>>> budget can seek funding
>>>> through UA
>>>> Finboard, from LEF or ARCADE,
>>>> from the MIT
>>>> Administration, or from
>>>> other funding sources.
>>>>
>>>> Please discuss.
>>>>
>>>> Alex Schwendner
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:52
>>>> AM, Alex Dehnert (UA
>>>> Treasurer)
>>>> <ua-treasurer@mit.edu
>>>> <mailto:ua-treasurer@mit.edu>
>>>> <mailto:ua-treasurer@mit.edu
>>>> <mailto:ua-treasurer@mit.edu>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> As several people have
>>>> pointed out, the UA
>>>> spends quite a bit of
>>>> money on
>>>> events (about a third
>>>> of last semester's budget)
>>>> and focused projects
>>>> (like
>>>> PLUS --- about a tenth
>>>> of last semester's UA
>>>> budget). As Andrew
>>>> Lukmann
>>>> pointed out last week,
>>>> committees are spending
>>>> almost twice as much in
>>>> Fall
>>>> 2009's budget as in
>>>> Spring 2007's budget.
>>>>
>>>> Unfortunately, it is
>>>> now a little bit late to
>>>> make major changes to
>>>> the
>>>> Fall 2009 budget. Last
>>>> week's meeting was
>>>> intended to allow that,
>>>> and we
>>>> spent a great deal of
>>>> time on it then. I also
>>>> solicited feedback late
>>>> Friday
>>>> night (or really
>>>> Saturday morning), and didn't
>>>> receive any. Of
>>>> course, you
>>>> are well within your
>>>> rights to amend the budget
>>>> at this point. (Though
>>>> Athletics Weekend has
>>>> already happened, so I'd
>>>> rather you didn't amend
>>>> that...)
>>>>
>>>> However, the Spring
>>>> 2010 budget has not begun
>>>> being compiled. In
>>>> preparing
>>>> the the Fall 2009
>>>> budget, I (and I believe
>>>> committee chairs and
>>>> the Special
>>>> Budgetary Committee)
>>>> generally followed
>>>> precedent as to events
>>>> and amounts.
>>>>
>>>> In some sense, there
>>>> are (at least) two options
>>>> for guiding
>>>> principles to
>>>> take in producing the
>>>> budget:
>>>> (1) Many of the UA-run
>>>> events are more useful
>>>> than the events and
>>>> programming
>>>> (Finboard-funded) student groups
>>>> would spend the money on
>>>> (2) Alternatively, that
>>>> events and programs such
>>>> as Athletics Weekend or
>>>> PLUS aren't worth
>>>> taking the money away from
>>>> those student groups
>>>>
>>>> We've recently been
>>>> defaulting to the former
>>>> guiding principle.
>>>> However, I
>>>> would encourage the
>>>> Senate to seriously consider
>>>> which is preferable and
>>>> pass appropriate
>>>> legislation indicating a
>>>> preference.
>>>>
>>>> I would be *thrilled*
>>>> to have such guidance, and
>>>> would happily
>>>> incorporate
>>>> it into next semester's
>>>> budget. (I warn you,
>>>> however, that committee
>>>> chairs
>>>> will probably be asked
>>>> to begin budgeting in
>>>> about two weeks.)
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Alex Dehnert
>>>> UA Treasurer
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Adam Bockelie
>>>> 801.209.7233
>>>> <bockelie@mit.edu <mailto:bockelie@mit.edu>>
>>>>
>>>> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
>>>> Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
>>>> Class of 2011
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jason Alexander Scott
>>>> Class Council President
>>>> MIT Class of 2010
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> __________________________________
>>>> Alexandra Jordan
>>>>
>>>> MIT 2011
>>>> Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science
>>>> Political Science
>>>>
>>>> amjordan@mit.edu <mailto:amjordan@mit.edu>
>>>> 916.813.7740
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> __________________________________
>>> Alexandra Jordan
>>>
>>> MIT 2011
>>> Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science
>>> Political Science
>>>
>>> amjordan@mit.edu <mailto:amjordan@mit.edu>
>>> 916.813.7740
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
