[120] in UA Senate
Re: UA budgeting principles
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Alexandra Jordan)
Thu Oct 15 01:55:38 2009
Cc: Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>, hwkns@mit.edu,
Jason Scott <jascott88@gmail.com>, Adam Bockelie <bockelie@mit.edu>,
Paul Youchak <youchakp@mit.edu>, Catherine Olsson <catherio@mit.edu>,
Andrew Lukmann <lukymann@mit.edu>, Alex Schwendner <alexrs@mit.edu>,
ua-senate@mit.edu, ua-discuss@mit.edu
From: Alexandra Jordan <amjordan@MIT.EDU>
To: Janet Li <jli12@mit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <f645609e0910142221m6bcef51dj163f4507d2478041@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:55:07 -0400
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I would say that meetings for Senate and committees are equally
advertised online (committees have public google calendars announcing
all meeting dates on each web page), with the only difference in
advertising coming from emails from Senators to constituents, which
varies on a case-by-case basis. It would be impractical for every
committee to email the undergrads list before each meeting.
I also think it's important to note that Senators represent far fewer
people than executive committee members, who essentially represent the
entire student body.
Additionally, I'd argue that committees tend to deliver tangible
results to the student body (look at any of the active committees like
DPC, Athletics, Special Projects, etc., who have all completed large
projects recently that benefit the entire undergraduate population)
that more than encompass the value of food and office resources
utilized by said committees.
I agree that standardizing funds for food per person is reasonable.
Alex Jordan
Panhel Senator
Chair, Committee on Sustainability
Member, Committee on Dining
On Oct 15, 2009, at 1:21 AM, Janet Li wrote:
> Senate meetings are more broadcast to undergrads than committee
> meetings are, at least in my experience. As an example, last year,
> when I wasn't on the UA, the food did actually provide me with an
> incentive to come to some of the Senate meetings and listen to the
> guest speakers, etc.
>
> Anyway, to complement Paul's numbers, there are indeed serious
> discrepancies in how much committees budget for food, from $400
> total for 5-person meetings (Dining), to $135 total for 5-person
> meetings (Space Planning). At least we could standardize how much
> money we spend on food across all committees.
> ---
> Janet Li
> MIT Class of 2012
> Dept. of Biological Engineering
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>
> wrote:
> If Senate chooses to ask that I do that, I'd ask that you either:
> (1) Also ask me to remove food from Senate budget (I'm not sure if
> you were counting Senate as a committee)
> (2) Come up with a *really good* justification for why Senate
> deserves it more.
>
> ~~Alex
>
> Janet Li wrote:
> I know I'm new, but I just think that committee meetings are
> generally short
> enough that no one should go too hungry during them... it does seem
> a little
> absurd to me that 14% of our budget goes to food to feed OURSELVES.
> Sure,
> the UA works hard and all, but we do it because we WANT to help the
> undergrads. And I just don't see how we're helping and serving them
> by using
> 14% of our enormous budget to pay for our own food. I would like to
> suggest
> that we remove food from all of the committees' budgets in the
> future...
> does anyone else agree at all?
> ---
> Janet Li
> Baker Senator
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Alexandra Jordan
> <amjordan@mit.edu> wrote:
>
> I agree with Hawkins. The UA is a large organization, that
> cumulatively
> puts in hundreds of hours for the undergrads per week, with some
> individuals
> putting in well over even a normal 40 hour work week during the more
> stressful periods (example: Exec officers and the Budget Task Force
> position
> pieces, example: DPC report compilation). Providing basics (like
> food, a
> productive meeting space, etc.) for people to perform work on behalf
> of
> 4,000 students is completely within reason. If you're looking to cut
> fat out
> of the budget, it shouldn't be at the expense of the quality of
> working
> conditions for the people who are representing undergraduates to the
> administration to make life better at MIT. I also would agree with
> Ashley's
> assessment that student groups probably should fund certain events or
> capital expenditures from other means, not only to ensure
> sustainability and
> longevity of the group, but also because many small student group
> expenses
> benefit even fewer people than the UA food expenditures we're
> discussing.
> I also think it's relevant to recognize that the work of the UA is on
> behalf of all undergrads, whereas many of the groups we fund benefit
> and
> represent extremely small segments of the population.
>
> Alex Jordan
>
> benefit MIT
> undergraduates. This might mean that we spend the money
> ourselves or
> this might mean that we give it to student groups who
> can use it.
> There are plenty of student groups who do wonderful and
> amazing
> things. All of us can think of student groups which get
> much of their
> funding from the UA which have made our time at MIT more
> worthwhile.
> Our goal, as the UA, should not be to do awesome things,
> but rather to
> see that awesome things get done.
>
> Sometimes, of course, this will mean that we should
> spend money on
> projects conceived by the UA and sometimes this will
> mean that we
> should give money to student groups. However, there is a
> natural,
> institutional bias toward spending the money ourselves.
> We need to
> fight that bias. Since we, the UA, get first crack at
> the money, it's
> easy to think of cool things which we can do with the
> money while
> forgetting about the very real and very cool things
> which student
> groups will *not* be able to do without that money. We
> can see this
> "mission creep" in UA funding in the way that the money
> allocated to
> UA committees has increased in past years. Yes, the UA
> does more with
> the increased money, but it is not always clear that
> it's spent better
> than it could be spent by student groups. The standards
> which hold for
> receiving funding from the UA general budget should be
> analogous to
> the standards which hold for receiving funding from UA
> Finboard. I
> will note that while UA committees received basically
> everything that
> they asked for in the Fall UA budget, student groups
> which applied to
> UA Finboard received less than 30% of their requests in
> the most
> recent funding cycle.
>
> Therefore, during the Spring 2010 budgeting process, I
> intend to push
> for allocating more money for student groups. Projects
> which we choose
> not to fund from the UA general budget can seek funding
> through UA
> Finboard, from LEF or ARCADE, from the MIT
> Administration, or from
> other funding sources.
>
> Please discuss.
>
> Alex Schwendner
>
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Alex Dehnert (UA
> Treasurer)
> <ua-treasurer@mit.edu <mailto:ua-treasurer@mit.edu>>
> wrote:
>
> As several people have pointed out, the UA
> spends quite a bit of money on
> events (about a third of last semester's budget)
> and focused projects (like
> PLUS --- about a tenth of last semester's UA
> budget). As Andrew Lukmann
> pointed out last week, committees are spending
> almost twice as much in Fall
> 2009's budget as in Spring 2007's budget.
>
> Unfortunately, it is now a little bit late to
> make major changes to the
> Fall 2009 budget. Last week's meeting was
> intended to allow that, and we
> spent a great deal of time on it then. I also
> solicited feedback late Friday
> night (or really Saturday morning), and didn't
> receive any. Of course, you
> are well within your rights to amend the budget
> at this point. (Though
> Athletics Weekend has already happened, so I'd
> rather you didn't amend
> that...)
>
> However, the Spring 2010 budget has not begun
> being compiled. In preparing
> the the Fall 2009 budget, I (and I believe
> committee chairs and the Special
> Budgetary Committee) generally followed
> precedent as to events and amounts.
>
> In some sense, there are (at least) two options
> for guiding principles to
> take in producing the budget:
> (1) Many of the UA-run events are more useful
> than the events and
> programming (Finboard-funded) student groups
> would spend the money on
> (2) Alternatively, that events and programs such
> as Athletics Weekend or
> PLUS aren't worth taking the money away from
> those student groups
>
> We've recently been defaulting to the former
> guiding principle. However, I
> would encourage the Senate to seriously consider
> which is preferable and
> pass appropriate legislation indicating a
> preference.
>
> I would be *thrilled* to have such guidance, and
> would happily incorporate
> it into next semester's budget. (I warn you,
> however, that committee chairs
> will probably be asked to begin budgeting in
> about two weeks.)
>
> Thanks,
> Alex Dehnert
> UA Treasurer
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Adam Bockelie
> 801.209.7233
> <bockelie@mit.edu>
>
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology
> Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering
> Class of 2011
>
>
>
> --
> Jason Alexander Scott
> Class Council President
> MIT Class of 2010
>
>
> __________________________________
> Alexandra Jordan
>
> MIT 2011
> Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science
> Political Science
>
> amjordan@mit.edu
> 916.813.7740
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Alexandra Jordan
MIT 2011
Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science
Political Science
amjordan@mit.edu
916.813.7740
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<html><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; =
-webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">I would say that meetings for =
Senate and committees are equally advertised online (committees have =
public google calendars announcing all meeting dates on each web page), =
with the only difference in advertising coming from emails from Senators =
to constituents, which varies on a case-by-case basis. It would be =
impractical for every committee to email the undergrads list before each =
meeting. <div><br><div>I also think it's important to note that =
Senators represent far fewer people than executive committee members, =
who essentially represent the entire student =
body. </div><div><br></div><div>Additionally, I'd argue that =
committees tend to deliver tangible results to the student body (look at =
any of the active committees like DPC, Athletics, Special Projects, =
etc., who have all completed large projects recently that benefit the =
entire undergraduate population) that more than encompass the value of =
food and office resources utilized by said =
committees. <div><br></div><div>I agree that standardizing funds =
for food per person is reasonable. </div><div><br></div><div>Alex =
Jordan</div><div>Panhel Senator</div><div>Chair, Committee on =
Sustainability</div><div>Member, Committee on =
Dining<br><div><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Oct 15, 2009, at =
1:21 AM, Janet Li wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type=3D"cite">Senate =
meetings are more broadcast to undergrads than committee meetings are, =
at least in my experience. As an example, last year, when I wasn't on =
the UA, the food did actually provide me with an incentive to come to =
some of the Senate meetings and listen to the guest speakers, etc.<br> =
<br> Anyway, to complement Paul's numbers, there are indeed serious =
discrepancies in how much committees budget for food, from $400 total =
for 5-person meetings (Dining), to $135 total for 5-person meetings =
(Space Planning). At least we could standardize how much money we spend =
on food across all committees.<br clear=3D"all">---<br>Janet Li<br>MIT =
Class of 2012<br>Dept. of Biological Engineering<br> <br><br><div =
class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:11 AM, Alex Dehnert =
<span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"mailto:adehnert@mit.edu">adehnert@mit.edu</a>></span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px =
solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: =
1ex;"> If Senate chooses to ask that I do that, I'd ask that you =
either:<br> (1) Also ask me to remove food from Senate budget (I'm not =
sure if you were counting Senate as a committee)<br> (2) Come up with a =
*really good* justification for why Senate deserves it more.<br> <br> =
~~Alex<br> <br> Janet Li wrote:<br> <blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt =
0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"> I know I'm =
new, but I just think that committee meetings are generally short<br> =
enough that no one should go too hungry during them... it does seem a =
little<br> absurd to me that 14% of our budget goes to food to feed =
OURSELVES. Sure,<br> the UA works hard and all, but we do it because we =
WANT to help the<br> undergrads. And I just don't see how we're helping =
and serving them by using<br> 14% of our enormous budget to pay for our =
own food. I would like to suggest<br> that we remove food from all of =
the committees' budgets in the future...<br> does anyone else agree at =
all?<br> ---<br> Janet Li<br> Baker Senator<br> <br> <br> On Thu, Oct =
15, 2009 at 12:33 AM, Alexandra Jordan <<a =
href=3D"mailto:amjordan@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">amjordan@mit.edu</a>> =
wrote:<br> <br> </div></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" =
style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt =
0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"> I agree =
with Hawkins. The UA is a large organization, that cumulatively<br> puts =
in hundreds of hours for the undergrads per week, with some =
individuals<br> putting in well over even a normal 40 hour work week =
during the more<br> stressful periods (example: Exec officers and the =
Budget Task Force position<br> pieces, example: DPC report compilation). =
Providing basics (like food, a<br> productive meeting space, etc.) for =
people to perform work on behalf of<br> 4,000 students is completely =
within reason. If you're looking to cut fat out<br> of the budget, it =
shouldn't be at the expense of the quality of working<br> conditions for =
the people who are representing undergraduates to the<br> administration =
to make life better at MIT. I also would agree with Ashley's<br> =
assessment that student groups probably should fund certain events =
or<br> capital expenditures from other means, not only to ensure =
sustainability and<br> longevity of the group, but also because many =
small student group expenses<br> benefit even fewer people than the UA =
food expenditures we're discussing.<br> I also think it's relevant to =
recognize that the work of the UA is on<br> behalf of all undergrads, =
whereas many of the groups we fund benefit and<br> represent extremely =
small segments of the population.<br> <br> Alex Jordan<br> <br> =
</div></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, =
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, =
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> <blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, =
204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> =
benefit MIT<br> =
undergraduates. This might mean that we =
spend the money<br> =
ourselves or<br> this =
might mean that we give it to student groups who<br> =
can use it.<br> =
There are plenty of student groups who do =
wonderful and<br> =
amazing<br> things. All =
of us can think of student groups which get<br> =
much of their<br> =
funding from the UA which have made our time =
at MIT more<br> =
worthwhile.<br> Our =
goal, as the UA, should not be to do awesome things,<br> =
but rather to<br> =
see that awesome things get done.<br> =
<br> Sometimes, of =
course, this will mean that we should<br> =
spend money on<br> =
projects conceived by the UA and sometimes this =
will<br> mean that =
we<br> should give =
money to student groups. However, there is a<br> =
natural,<br> =
institutional bias toward spending the money =
ourselves.<br> We need =
to<br> fight that bias. =
Since we, the UA, get first crack at<br> =
the money, it's<br> =
easy to think of cool things which we can do with =
the<br> money while<br> =
forgetting about the =
very real and very cool things<br> =
which student<br> =
groups will *not* be able to do without that money. We<br> =
can see this<br> =
"mission creep" in UA funding =
in the way that the money<br> =
allocated to<br> =
UA committees has increased in past years. Yes, the UA<br> =
does more with<br> =
the increased money, but it is not =
always clear that<br> =
it's spent better<br> =
than it could be spent by student groups. The standards<br> =
which hold for<br> =
receiving funding from the UA =
general budget should be<br> =
analogous to<br> =
the standards which hold for receiving funding from UA<br> =
Finboard. I<br> =
will note that while UA committees received =
basically<br> =
everything that<br> =
they asked for in the Fall UA budget, student groups<br> =
which applied to<br> =
UA Finboard received less than 30% of =
their requests in<br> =
the most<br> recent =
funding cycle.<br> <br> =
Therefore, during the Spring 2010 budgeting process, I<br> =
intend to push<br> =
for allocating more money for student =
groups. Projects<br> =
which we choose<br> not =
to fund from the UA general budget can seek funding<br> =
through UA<br> =
Finboard, from LEF or ARCADE, from the =
MIT<br> Administration, =
or from<br> other =
funding sources.<br> <br> =
Please discuss.<br> <br> =
Alex Schwendner<br> <br> =
On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 12:52 AM, Alex Dehnert =
(UA<br> Treasurer)<br> =
<<a =
href=3D"mailto:ua-treasurer@mit.edu" =
target=3D"_blank">ua-treasurer@mit.edu</a> <mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:ua-treasurer@mit.edu" =
target=3D"_blank">ua-treasurer@mit.edu</a>>><br> wrote:<br> <br> =
As =
several people have pointed out, the UA<br> =
spends quite a bit of =
money on<br> =
events (about a third of last semester's =
budget)<br> =
and focused projects (like<br> =
PLUS --- about a =
tenth of last semester's UA<br> =
budget). As Andrew Lukmann<br> =
=
pointed out last week, committees are spending<br> =
almost =
twice as much in Fall<br> =
2009's budget as in Spring 2007's =
budget.<br> <br> =
Unfortunately, it is now a little bit late to<br> =
=
make major changes to the<br> =
Fall 2009 budget. Last week's =
meeting was<br> =
intended to allow that, and we<br> =
spent a =
great deal of time on it then. I also<br> =
solicited feedback late =
Friday<br> =
night (or really Saturday morning), and didn't<br> =
=
receive any. Of course, you<br> =
are well within your =
rights to amend the budget<br> =
at this point. (Though<br> =
=
Athletics Weekend has already happened, so I'd<br> =
rather you =
didn't amend<br> =
that...)<br> <br> =
However, the Spring =
2010 budget has not begun<br> =
being compiled. In preparing<br> =
=
the the Fall 2009 budget, I (and I believe<br> =
committee =
chairs and the Special<br> =
Budgetary Committee) generally =
followed<br> =
precedent as to events and amounts.<br> <br> =
In =
some sense, there are (at least) two options<br> =
for guiding =
principles to<br> =
take in producing the budget:<br> =
=
(1) Many of the UA-run events are more useful<br> =
than the events =
and<br> =
programming (Finboard-funded) student groups<br> =
=
would spend the money on<br> =
(2) Alternatively, that events and =
programs such<br> =
as Athletics Weekend or<br> =
PLUS =
aren't worth taking the money away from<br> =
those student =
groups<br> <br> =
We've recently been defaulting to the former<br> =
=
guiding principle. However, I<br> =
would encourage the =
Senate to seriously consider<br> =
which is preferable and<br> =
=
pass appropriate legislation indicating a<br> =
=
preference.<br> <br> =
I would be *thrilled* to have such guidance, =
and<br> =
would happily incorporate<br> =
it into next semester's =
budget. (I warn you,<br> =
however, that committee chairs<br> =
=
will probably be asked to begin budgeting in<br> =
about two =
weeks.)<br> <br> =
Thanks,<br> =
Alex Dehnert<br> =
UA =
Treasurer<br> <br> <br> <br> <br> <br> </blockquote> --<br> Adam =
Bockelie<br> 801.209.7233<br> <<a href=3D"mailto:bockelie@mit.edu" =
target=3D"_blank">bockelie@mit.edu</a>><br> <br> Massachusetts Institute =
of Technology<br> Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering<br> =
Class of 2011<br> <br> </blockquote> <br> <br> --<br> Jason Alexander =
Scott<br> Class Council President<br> MIT Class of 2010<br> <br> <br> =
</blockquote> __________________________________<br> Alexandra =
Jordan<br> <br> MIT 2011<br> Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary =
Science<br> Political Science<br> <br> <a href=3D"mailto:amjordan@mit.edu"=
target=3D"_blank">amjordan@mit.edu</a><br> 916.813.7740<br> <br> <br> =
<br> <br> <br> </div></div></blockquote> <br> </blockquote> <br> =
</blockquote></div><br></blockquote></div><br><div =
apple-content-edited=3D"true"> <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
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style=3D"border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
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break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: =
after-white-space; =
"><div>__________________________________</div><div>Alexandra =
Jordan</div><div><br></div><div>MIT 2011</div><div>Earth, Atmospheric, =
and Planetary Science</div><div>Political =
Science</div><div><br></div><div><a =
href=3D"mailto:amjordan@mit.edu">amjordan@mit.edu</a></div><div>916.813.77=
40</div><div><br></div></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></div></span><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"> =
</div><br></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>=
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