[301] in UA Exec
Re: You are being lied to.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Ted Hilk)
Sun Apr 4 21:18:26 2010
In-Reply-To: <4BB91CE7.7080301@mit.edu>
From: Ted Hilk <thilk@MIT.EDU>
Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 21:17:57 -0400
To: Andrew Lukmann <lukymann@mit.edu>
Cc: Jessica H Lowell <jessiehl@mit.edu>, hwkns@mit.edu,
Nathaniel Fox <natefox@mit.edu>, Alexandra Jordan <amjordan@mit.edu>,
Anthony Rindone <arindone@mit.edu>, UA Senate <ua-senate@mit.edu>,
UA Executive Board <ua-exec@mit.edu>, cfs@mit.edu
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Hey Andrew,
The last time I spoke with Prof. Muriel Medard, she was trying to justify
reducing financial aid by $1400 for students opting out of the dining plan
when the actual difference in expenses between dining hall food and cooking
for oneself over a year is only $500 on average. Nevermind the fact that
this would essentially be predicating student aid on student choices (should
I get extra financial aid if I want a new computer?). After half an hour
she finally admitted that the amount was arbitrary and that the extra
deduction was solely intended to 'encourage' students to buy into the dining
system. She is very polite and willing to talk at great length about
issues, but I'm afraid she does not appear to be in support of the student
perspective on this matter.
Ted
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Andrew Lukmann <lukymann@mit.edu> wrote:
> Hey Jessie (and everybody else)...
>
> Like you pointed out, a number of reliable student allies in the
> administration have moved on and on the whole, less cooperative people have
> replaced them. Without a guy like Immer or Larry to go to, this generation
> of student leaders is (I believe) having a harder leveraging their
> relationships than we did. That said, there are still a number of people who
> might have a bit of pull in DSL that I would recommend people engage, if
> they haven't already: Phil Walsh (CAC), Ann McCants (former faculty CSL
> chair), Muriel Medard (CSL chair - though her opinions on dining might be
> well-ingrained). Also, even though he is on his way out, I've always found
> Steve Lerman to be a friend to students and he might be in the position to
> speak (or act) a little more freely now that he is moving to GWU.
>
> I think it's great to see a number of students realizing that they need to
> hold administrators feet to the fire when they fall short of their own
> rhetoric/promises regarding meaningfully engaging students on important
> issues. If you (and I do mean all of you) don't make it difficult (or
> embarrassing) for them to ignore you, they will never have any incentive to
> act in your best interest any time it conflicts with the easiest path to
> their goals (in this case, dining cost effectiveness).
>
> Keep it up!
> -Andrew L.
>
>
>
>
> Jessica H Lowell wrote:
>
>> Quoting Daniel Hawkins <hwkns@MIT.EDU>:
>>
>> Jessie,
>>>
>>> We tried coming up with our own proposal last year (DPC). Admins keep
>>> calling it "an important piece of student input" and completely ignoring
>>> its
>>> contents. What's driving this is the desire to eliminate the deficit and
>>> "build community" around dining, which involves less choice and more
>>> money
>>> (but not MIT's money - they need to eliminate the deficit). Those are
>>> principles that everyone in the administration (that I'm aware of) agrees
>>> on. I haven't talked to Matt - I'll send him an e-mail.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, I saw the proposal. It looked like a good step. It's the same old
>> story
>> with Dining. When I dealt with that, though, it was easier, because
>> larryben
>> (Columbo's predecessor) was still around and he was on our side.
>>
>> Who does Columbo listen to? Presumably Phil Clay, but I doubt Clay's
>> useful
>> here. Immerman's gone, so that's a non-starter. The FSILGs generally
>> have a
>> stake in students not getting screwed over on Dining, since less choice
>> often
>> hurts their frosh and on-campus members - is anyone on the FSILG side of
>> the
>> Student Life staff persuadable and trusted by Columbo? Could any of the
>> RLAs
>> help here? If Admissions has any influence with Columbo, which they may
>> not,
>> they'd likely be willing to help you out with him.
>>
>> It sounds like if you keep working primarily with Columbo, you're not
>> going to
>> get anywhere. Obviously, you have to work with him, communicate with him,
>> not
>> antagonize him too much. But that doesn't mean you can't work with other
>> people (sounds like a good project for a senator or two!). And if you can
>> dig
>> up administrative allies, they might be able to make more progress with
>> Columbo
>> than you can.
>>
>> Have you bugged your rich potential-big-donor alumni? Many FSILGs and
>> some dorm
>> living groups keep in contact with a lot of their alumni, and might be
>> able to
>> dig up a few wealthy folks who would be pissed about students being
>> screwed
>> over on dining.
>>
>> The UA has little real power given to it - it has to find ways to
>> manufacture
>> its own.
>>
>> - Jessie
>>
>
>
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<div>Hey Andrew,</div><div><br></div>The last time I spoke with Prof. Murie=
l Medard, she was trying to justify reducing financial aid by $1400 for stu=
dents opting out of the dining plan when the actual difference in expenses =
between dining hall food and cooking for oneself over a year is only $500 o=
n average. =A0Nevermind the fact that this would essentially be predicating=
student aid on student choices (should I get extra financial aid if I want=
a new computer?). =A0After half an hour she finally admitted that the amou=
nt was arbitrary and that the extra deduction was solely intended to 'e=
ncourage' students to buy into the dining system. =A0She is very polite=
and willing to talk at great length about issues, but I'm afraid she d=
oes not appear to be in support of the student perspective on this matter.<=
div>
<br></div><div>Ted</div><div><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr=
4, 2010 at 7:12 PM, Andrew Lukmann <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto=
:lukymann@mit.edu">lukymann@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex;">
Hey Jessie (and everybody else)...<br>
<br>
Like you pointed out, a number of reliable student allies in the administra=
tion have moved on and on the whole, less cooperative people have replaced =
them. Without a guy like Immer or Larry to go to, this generation of studen=
t leaders is (I believe) having a harder leveraging their relationships tha=
n we did. That said, there are still a number of people who might have a bi=
t of pull in DSL that I would recommend people engage, if they haven't =
already: Phil Walsh (CAC), Ann McCants (former faculty CSL chair), Muriel M=
edard (CSL chair - though her opinions on dining might be well-ingrained). =
Also, even though he is on his way out, I've always found Steve Lerman =
to be a friend to students and he might be in the position to speak (or act=
) a little more freely now that he is moving to GWU.<br>
<br>
I think it's great to see a number of students realizing that they need=
to hold administrators feet to the fire when they fall short of their own =
rhetoric/promises regarding meaningfully engaging students on important iss=
ues. If you (and I do mean all of you) don't make it difficult (or emba=
rrassing) for them to ignore you, they will never have any incentive to act=
in your best interest any time it conflicts with the easiest path to their=
goals (in this case, dining cost effectiveness).<br>
<br>
Keep it up!<br>
-Andrew L.<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Jessica H Lowell wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Quoting Daniel Hawkins <<a href=3D"mailto:hwkns@MIT.EDU" target=3D"_blan=
k">hwkns@MIT.EDU</a>>:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Jessie,<br>
<br>
We tried coming up with our own proposal last year (DPC). =A0Admins keep<br=
>
calling it "an important piece of student input" and completely i=
gnoring its<br>
contents. =A0What's driving this is the desire to eliminate the deficit=
and<br>
"build community" around dining, which involves less choice and m=
ore money<br>
(but not MIT's money - they need to eliminate the deficit). =A0Those ar=
e<br>
principles that everyone in the administration (that I'm aware of) agre=
es<br>
on. =A0I haven't talked to Matt - I'll send him an e-mail.<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
Yeah, I saw the proposal. =A0It looked like a good step. =A0It's the sa=
me old story<br>
with Dining. =A0When I dealt with that, though, it was easier, because larr=
yben<br>
(Columbo's predecessor) was still around and he was on our side.<br>
<br>
Who does Columbo listen to? =A0Presumably Phil Clay, but I doubt Clay's=
useful<br>
here. =A0Immerman's gone, so that's a non-starter. =A0The FSILGs ge=
nerally have a<br>
stake in students not getting screwed over on Dining, since less choice oft=
en<br>
hurts their frosh and on-campus members - is anyone on the FSILG side of th=
e<br>
Student Life staff persuadable and trusted by Columbo? =A0Could any of the =
RLAs<br>
help here? =A0If Admissions has any influence with Columbo, which they may =
not,<br>
they'd likely be willing to help you out with him.<br>
<br>
It sounds like if you keep working primarily with Columbo, you're not g=
oing to<br>
get anywhere. =A0Obviously, you have to work with him, communicate with him=
, not<br>
antagonize him too much. =A0But that doesn't mean you can't work wi=
th other<br>
people (sounds like a good project for a senator or two!). =A0And if you ca=
n dig<br>
up administrative allies, they might be able to make more progress with Col=
umbo<br>
than you can.<br>
<br>
Have you bugged your rich potential-big-donor alumni? =A0Many FSILGs and so=
me dorm<br>
living groups keep in contact with a lot of their alumni, and might be able=
to<br>
dig up a few wealthy folks who would be pissed about students being screwed=
<br>
over on dining.<br>
<br>
The UA has little real power given to it - it has to find ways to manufactu=
re<br>
its own.<br>
<br>
- Jessie<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</div>
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