[20] in UA Discuss
Re: Detailed Election Results
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Paul Baranay)
Tue Oct 6 16:36:33 2009
In-Reply-To: <alpine.DEB.1.10.0910061534000.4218@dr-wily.mit.edu>
From: Paul Baranay <pbaranay@MIT.EDU>
Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:36:06 -0400
To: Quentin Smith <quentin@mit.edu>
Cc: Sun Kim <sun_kim@mit.edu>, Steve Kelch <phire14@gmail.com>,
ua-elect@mit.edu, ua-discuss@mit.edu
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Hi all,
A few quick comments from me...
In an effort to maintain separation between the Election Commission and the
Senate during the election, I know very little about the background beyond
what has been said in The Tech or other public forums. That said, my
understanding of the Election Code is that the Code is silent on whether the
results need to be released, and therefore the final decision falls to the
discretion of the Commissioner. That said, I believe the case is currently
being reviewed by the Judicial Board. Because of this fact, coupled with
the Speaker's responsibility of impartiality, I don't think it's appropriate
for me to state an opinion either way on this matter.
However, it *absolutely* falls under Senate's purview to review and
occasionally revise the Election Code (by a three-fourths vote). I
encourage any Senators interested in the Code to speak with me and perhaps
take this on as your project for the semester. I helped prepare revisions
to the Code during my freshman year, and I will be happy to provide whatever
guidance I can to any of you.
Finally, as newly-elected Senators, you are rather directly affected by this
decision, which places you in a prime opportunity to comment. I welcome you
to give your feedback -- formally or informally, privately or publicly -- on
what you think about the Commissioner's deicision in this case.
Sincerely,
Paul
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Quentin Smith <quentin@mit.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009, Sun Kim wrote:
>
> The precedence of inconsistency and my perceived lack of benefit were
>> my personal reasons to withhold the results. I am confident that there
>> are no, to my knowledge, any inconsistencies that would cause me to
>> question the integrity of the election. If Judboard rules that it is
>> my place to release the numbers, I will do so.
>>
>
> What is the precedent of inconsistency? As I said, I have found that all
> the results from 2000-2007 were released, and they stopped there only
> because no one seems to have maintained the ElectComm website. Beyond those,
> it looks like
>
> - Spring 2008
> - Fall 2008
> - Spring 2009
>
> were also all released, though I can only find the results in The Tech, and
> nowhere on the ElectComm site. So I can't really find much evidence to
> suggest that ElectComm has frequently not released results. Perhaps you
> misinterpreted the failure to maintain the Election Commision website (and
> the resulting broken links today) as an original intent to hide the results.
>
> I think there is a very clear benefit: releasing the election results
> allows voters (i.e. your constituency) to verify that their votes were
> properly counted, and provides a significant check against election
> misconduct.
>
> --Quentin
>
>
>
>> Sun
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Steve Kelch <phire14@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I can't second the complaint, not being a student anymore, but if I could
>>> I
>>> would. What's private about an election? Are you worried someone is going
>>> to
>>> have their feelings hurt by only receiving a few votes? Tough, maybe they
>>> should have campaigned harder. This isn't a popularity contest. It's
>>> explicitly the Election Commission's job to be neutral and unfeeling. It
>>> is
>>> an egregious breech of transparency in *any* large scale election to not
>>> reveal the vote count.
>>>
>>> How else would people be able to:
>>>
>>> 1) Judge whether the vote tally approximately matches reasonable
>>> expectations
>>> 2) Ask for a recount in the event of a very close race
>>> 3) Explicitly learn to which degree certain platforms did and did not
>>> receive a popular reception, to better help those who did win the
>>> election
>>> to tailor their efforts
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Quentin Smith <quentin@mit.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi-
>>>>
>>>> I want to formally complain about the Election Commission's decision to
>>>> not released the detailed election results, as has been done in almost
>>>> every
>>>> prior election. (As of the last time the Election Commission website was
>>>> updated, which is sadly back in 2007, all the results from 2000-2007
>>>> were
>>>> released to the public; I believe newer results are/were stored on the
>>>> vote.mit.edu server, so I can not tell if they were ever available.)
>>>>
>>>> It really hurts the UA's transparency and causes people to believe that
>>>> the Election Commission has something to hide from the voters and
>>>> candidates. Is there any reasoning for not releasing the results? The
>>>> explanation that Sun gave to The Tech that he wanted to "preserve the
>>>> privacy of all candidates" is specious; I would expect the losing
>>>> candidates
>>>> to be among the most vocal in support of releasing results.
>>>>
>>>> --Quentin
>>>> UA CIT
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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Hi all,<div><br></div><div>A few quick comments from me...</div><div><br></=
div><div>In an effort to maintain separation between the Election Commissio=
n and the Senate during the election, I know very little about the backgrou=
nd beyond what has been said in The Tech or other public forums. =A0That sa=
id, my understanding of the Election Code is that the Code is silent on whe=
ther the results need to be released, and therefore the final decision fall=
s to the discretion of the Commissioner. =A0That said,=A0I believe the case=
is currently being reviewed by the Judicial Board. =A0Because of this fact=
, coupled with the Speaker's responsibility of impartiality, I don'=
t think it's appropriate for me to state an opinion either way on this =
matter.</div>
<div><br></div><div>However, it <i>absolutely</i> falls under Senate's =
purview to review and occasionally revise the Election Code (by a three-fou=
rths vote). =A0=A0I encourage any Senators interested in the Code to speak =
with me and perhaps take this on as your project for the semester. =A0I hel=
ped prepare revisions to the Code during my freshman year, and I will be ha=
ppy to provide whatever guidance I can to any of you.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Finally, as newly-elected Senators, you are rather dire=
ctly affected by this decision, which places you in a prime opportunity to =
comment. =A0I welcome you to give your feedback -- formally or informally, =
privately or publicly -- on what you think about the Commissioner's dei=
cision in this case.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Sincerely,</div><div>Paul</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_=
quote">On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Quentin Smith <span dir=3D"ltr"><=
<a href=3D"mailto:quentin@mit.edu">quentin@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br=
>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div class=3D"im">On Tue, 6 Oct 2009, Sun Kim wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
The precedence of inconsistency and my perceived lack of benefit were<br>
my personal reasons to withhold the results. I am confident that there<br>
are no, to my knowledge, any inconsistencies that would cause me to<br>
question the integrity of the election. If Judboard rules that it is<br>
my place to release the numbers, I will do so.<br>
</blockquote>
<br></div>
What is the precedent of inconsistency? As I said, I have found that all th=
e results from 2000-2007 were released, and they stopped there only because=
no one seems to have maintained the ElectComm website. Beyond those, it lo=
oks like<br>
<br>
- Spring 2008<br>
- Fall 2008<br>
- Spring 2009<br>
<br>
were also all released, though I can only find the results in The Tech, and=
nowhere on the ElectComm site. So I can't really find much evidence to=
suggest that ElectComm has frequently not released results. Perhaps you mi=
sinterpreted the failure to maintain the Election Commision website (and th=
e resulting broken links today) as an original intent to hide the results.<=
br>
<br>
I think there is a very clear benefit: releasing the election results allow=
s voters (i.e. your constituency) to verify that their votes were properly =
counted, and provides a significant check against election misconduct.<br>
<font color=3D"#888888">
<br>
--Quentin</font><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Sun<br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Steve Kelch <<a href=3D"mailto:phire14@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">phire14@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I can't second the complaint, not being a student anymore, but if I cou=
ld I<br>
would. What's private about an election? Are you worried someone is goi=
ng to<br>
have their feelings hurt by only receiving a few votes? Tough, maybe they<b=
r>
should have campaigned harder. This isn't a popularity contest. It'=
s<br>
explicitly the Election Commission's job to be neutral and unfeeling. I=
t is<br>
an egregious breech of transparency in *any* large scale election to not<br=
>
reveal the vote count.<br>
<br>
How else would people be able to:<br>
<br>
1) Judge whether the vote tally approximately matches reasonable<br>
expectations<br>
2) Ask for a recount in the event of a very close race<br>
3) Explicitly learn to which degree certain platforms did and did not<br>
receive a popular reception, to better help those who did win the election<=
br>
to tailor their efforts<br>
<br>
Steve<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Quentin Smith <<a href=3D"mailto:quentin=
@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">quentin@mit.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Hi-<br>
<br>
I want to formally complain about the Election Commission's decision to=
<br>
not released the detailed election results, as has been done in almost ever=
y<br>
prior election. (As of the last time the Election Commission website was<br=
>
updated, which is sadly back in 2007, all the results from 2000-2007 were<b=
r>
released to the public; I believe newer results are/were stored on the<br>
<a href=3D"http://vote.mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">vote.mit.edu</a> server, =
so I can not tell if they were ever available.)<br>
<br>
It really hurts the UA's transparency and causes people to believe that=
<br>
the Election Commission has something to hide from the voters and<br>
candidates. Is there any reasoning for not releasing the results? The<br>
explanation that Sun gave to The Tech that he wanted to "preserve the<=
br>
privacy of all candidates" is specious; I would expect the losing cand=
idates<br>
to be among the most vocal in support of releasing results.<br>
<br>
--Quentin<br>
UA CIT<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>
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