[105] in UA Discuss
Re: Proposal to allow FSILG housing of second semester freshmen.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Daniel Hawkins)
Sat Jan 2 15:38:07 2010
Reply-To: hwkns@MIT.EDU
In-Reply-To: <cad95d0c1001021203lc02139fwb64114ed408bc1f7@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 14:38:04 -0600
From: Daniel Hawkins <hwkns@MIT.EDU>
To: Spencer Williams <spencer8@mit.edu>
Cc: Ashley Nash <trashleynash@gmail.com>, Tim Stumbaugh <stum@mit.edu>,
UA Discuss <ua-discuss@mit.edu>, Brian Neltner <neltnerb@mit.edu>
--00151747bfe21314b9047c347753
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Brian (and anyone else chosen to represent this proposal):
PLEASE do not make this about crowding and enrollment. First of all, the
enrollment issues only begin with housing - there are tons of other (worse)
problems with adding to the size of the freshman class. And second, as
others have pointed out, this proposal does not actually alleviate crowding;
it does not create the opportunity for a responsible increase in enrollment.
I know you're just the messenger, and I'm not attacking you personally. I
also agree that this is probably a good idea. But the way it's presented
should focus on the supportive community that will benefit freshmen. I
don't want to see a good idea become the administration's justification for
doing something stupid.
-hwkns
On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Spencer Williams <spencer8@mit.edu> wrote:
> I am in agreement that second-semester freshman should be allowed to live
> off-campus. First semester provides freshman with an opportunity to
> assimilate into MIT's culture and form friendships outside of their
> respective FSILGs. However, by second semester, many freshman, especially
> those in fraternities, are ready to move off-campus, and frequently do
> so despite MIT's policy. This places the FSILGs in the uncomfortable
> position of having to choose between the desires of their freshman members
> and those of MIT, while at the same time the dorms are left with empty beds
> that could be used to house actual bodies instead of just names.
>
> The problem I foresee, then, is how MIT plans to accommodate the increased
> enrollment first semester when all freshman would be living on campus? One
> possibility is to allow freshman to move off campus during their first
> semester, though this option is likely to be strongly opposed.
> Another possibility that has been mentioned before is to no longer guarantee
> housing for juniors and seniors, however, this is an option, like the first,
> that is likely to be widely contested.
>
> Either way, if MIT plans on increasing enrollment, allowing freshman to
> move off-campus second semester is a step in the right direction.
>
> -Spencer Williams
>
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Ashley Nash <trashleynash@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I think that letting freshman live off campus for the second semester is
>> helpful even though it doesn't address the first semester problem. As you
>> pointed out, some freshmen move into their FSILG anyway either during the
>> first term or for the second term, and this is somewhat problematic for the
>> dorm and the FSILG. Some dorms have empty slots that they cannot fill
>> because MIT believes that they are already full, so other dorms are crowded
>> while some dorms have empty beds.
>>
>> Also, the FSILGs can't collect as much revenue as they otherwise would,
>> and some of them are hurting financially since they cannot fill all of their
>> slots. Letting freshman move off campus would help the crowding problem a
>> little bit, even if it is only legitimizing something that already happens.
>> That being said, saying it happens anyway and we may as well legitimize it
>> is a bad idea.
>>
>> Ashley
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Tim Stumbaugh <stum@mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> This has been floating around the dorm lists, so I thought I'd bring it
>>> up here.
>>>
>>> My thoughts on this are that while it is a good idea, it doesn't really
>>> address the issue of crowding since freshmen will still live on campus their
>>> first semester. MIT will probably not go back to freshmen being allowed to
>>> live in FSILGs first semester for a /very/ long time, if ever, but I think
>>> that this is a good thing, since it's important for freshmen to have a
>>> community outside of an FSILG.
>>> This ... sort of happens already, just unofficially (and with an
>>> empty/underoccupied room as the result).
>>>
>>> UA types (including Senate members), what are your thoughts on this?
>>>
>>> Brian, have you talked with the FSILG office/other members of RLA, the
>>> AILG or IFC/Panhel/LGC about this?
>>>
>>> [For full disclosure, Brian was a member of TEP while an undergraduate]
>>>
>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>> Subject: Proposal to allow FSILG housing of second semester freshmen.
>>> Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:14:50 -0500
>>> From: Brian Neltner <neltnerb@MIT.EDU>
>>> To: bc-talk@mit.edu
>>>
>>> Dear Burton Conner Residents,
>>>
>>> A group of alumni has put together a proposal to ask MIT to allow
>>> second-semester freshmen to live in FSILGs (Fraternities, Sororities,
>>> and Independent Living Groups). I know that to many of you this will
>>> feel irrelevant to your lives, but it *does* affect dorm residents.
>>>
>>> The full proposal can be found at:
>>> http://fsilg-housing.org/
>>>
>>> MIT is considering increasing enrollment, which will unquestionably
>>> result in overcrowding (even more than is currently in place). By
>>> allowing freshmen to live in FSILGs, MIT can increase enrollment without
>>> increasing crowding -- and overcrowding negatively effects the quality
>>> of life of anyone in a dorm.
>>>
>>> From a more philosophical point of view, it's not very reasonable for
>>> freshmen -- adults -- to be prevented from living with their support
>>> community. I'm sure many of you understand how difficult the first
>>> semester on grades is, and understand how awful it would be/is to be
>>> going through that without being able to live with your emotional and
>>> social support community, whether that community is a particular suite,
>>> a dorm hall, a fraternity, sorority, an ILG, or even an apartment.
>>>
>>> With that in mind, I hope that you will consider signing this proposal,
>>> as well as forwarding it to your alumni list, if you have one, or invite
>>> your friends on facebook to join our advocacy group "Allow FSILGs to
>>> house second-semester freshmen."
>>>
>>> The proposal can be found at:
>>> http://fsilg-housing.org/
>>>
>>> Thank you for your time, and I hope everyone has a wonderful IAP!
>>> Brian Neltner
>>> Class of 2005 -- Course 3 and 8
>>> Current PhD -- Course 3
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> -Tim
>>> "It's a picture of perfection."
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Massachusetts Institute of Technology Class of 2011
> Department of Economics | Sloan School of Management
>
--00151747bfe21314b9047c347753
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Brian (and anyone else chosen to represent this proposal):<br><br>PLEASE do=
not make this about crowding and enrollment.=A0 First of all, the enrollme=
nt issues only begin with housing - there are tons of other (worse) problem=
s with adding to the size of the freshman class.=A0 And second, as others h=
ave pointed out, this proposal does not actually alleviate crowding; it doe=
s not create the opportunity for a responsible increase in enrollment.<br>
<br>I know you're just the messenger, and I'm not attacking you per=
sonally.=A0 I also agree that this is probably a good idea.=A0 But the way =
it's presented should focus on the supportive community that will benef=
it freshmen.=A0 I don't want to see a good idea become the administrati=
on's justification for doing something stupid.<br>
<br>-hwkns<br><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 2:0=
3 PM, Spencer Williams <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:spencer8@mit=
.edu">spencer8@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt =
0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>I am in agreement that second-semester freshman should be allowed to l=
ive off-campus. First semester provides freshman with an opportunity to ass=
imilate into MIT's culture and form friendships outside of their respec=
tive FSILGs. However, by second semester, many freshman, especially those i=
n fraternities, are ready to move off-campus, and frequently do so=A0despit=
e MIT's policy. This places the FSILGs in the uncomfortable position of=
having to choose between the desires of their freshman members and those o=
f=A0MIT, while at the same time the dorms are left with empty beds that cou=
ld be used to house=A0actual bodies=A0instead of just names.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>The problem I foresee, then, is how MIT plans to accommodate the incre=
ased enrollment first semester when all freshman would be living on campus?=
One possibility=A0is to allow freshman to move off campus during their fir=
st semester, though this option is likely to be strongly opposed. Another=
=A0possibility that has been mentioned before=A0is to=A0no longer guarantee=
housing for juniors and seniors, however,=A0this is an option, like the fi=
rst, that is=A0likely to be widely contested.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>Either way, if MIT plans on increasing enrollment, allowing freshman t=
o move off-campus second semester is a step in the right direction.</div>
<div>=A0</div>
<div>-Spencer Williams=A0<br><br></div><div><div></div><div class=3D"h5">
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Ashley Nash <sp=
an dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:trashleynash@gmail.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">trashleynash@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">I think that lett=
ing freshman live off campus for the second semester is helpful even though=
it doesn't address the first semester problem. =A0As you pointed out, =
some freshmen move into their FSILG anyway either during the first term or =
for the second term, and this is somewhat problematic for the dorm and the =
FSILG. =A0Some dorms have empty slots that they cannot fill because MIT bel=
ieves that they are already full, so other dorms are crowded while some dor=
ms have empty beds.=A0=20
<div><br></div>
<div>Also, the FSILGs can't collect as much revenue as they otherwise w=
ould, and some of them are hurting financially since they cannot fill all o=
f their slots. Letting freshman move off campus would help the crowding pro=
blem a little bit, even if it is only legitimizing something that already h=
appens. =A0That being said, saying it happens anyway and we may as well leg=
itimize it is a bad idea. =A0</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><font color=3D"#888888">Ashley</font>=20
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br>
<div><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Jan 2, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Tim Stumbaugh <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:stum@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">stum@=
mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px=
0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class=3D"gmail_quote">This has been flo=
ating around the dorm lists, so I thought I'd bring it up here.<br><br>
My thoughts on this are that while it is a good idea, it doesn't really=
address the issue of crowding since freshmen will still live on campus the=
ir first semester. MIT will probably not go back to freshmen being allowed =
to live in FSILGs first semester for a /very/ long time, if ever, but I thi=
nk that this is a good thing, since it's important for freshmen to have=
a community outside of an FSILG.<br>
This ... sort of happens already, just unofficially (and with an empty/unde=
roccupied room as the result).<br><br>UA types (including Senate members), =
what are your thoughts on this?<br><br>Brian, have you talked with the FSIL=
G office/other members of RLA, the AILG or IFC/Panhel/LGC about this?<br>
<br>[For full disclosure, Brian was a member of TEP while an undergraduate]=
<br><br>-------- Original Message --------<br>Subject: Proposal to allow FS=
ILG housing of second semester freshmen.<br>Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:14:50=
-0500<br>
From: Brian Neltner <<a href=3D"mailto:neltnerb@MIT.EDU" target=3D"_blan=
k">neltnerb@MIT.EDU</a>><br>To: <a href=3D"mailto:bc-talk@mit.edu" targe=
t=3D"_blank">bc-talk@mit.edu</a><br><br>Dear Burton Conner Residents,<br><b=
r>A group of alumni has put together a proposal to ask MIT to allow<br>
second-semester freshmen to live in FSILGs (Fraternities, Sororities,<br>an=
d Independent Living Groups). I know that to many of you this will<br>feel =
irrelevant to your lives, but it *does* affect dorm residents.<br><br>
The full proposal can be found at:<br>
<a href=3D"http://fsilg-housing.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://fsilg-housin=
g.org/</a><br><br>MIT is considering increasing enrollment, which will unqu=
estionably<br>result in overcrowding (even more than is currently in place)=
. By<br>
allowing freshmen to live in FSILGs, MIT can increase enrollment without<br=
>increasing crowding -- and overcrowding negatively effects the quality<br>=
of life of anyone in a dorm.<br><br>From a more philosophical point of view=
, it's not very reasonable for<br>
freshmen -- adults -- to be prevented from living with their support<br>com=
munity. I'm sure many of you understand how difficult the first<br>seme=
ster on grades is, and understand how awful it would be/is to be<br>going t=
hrough that without being able to live with your emotional and<br>
social support community, whether that community is a particular suite,<br>=
a dorm hall, a fraternity, sorority, an ILG, or even an apartment.<br><br>W=
ith that in mind, I hope that you will consider signing this proposal,<br>
as well as forwarding it to your alumni list, if you have one, or invite<br=
>your friends on facebook to join our advocacy group "Allow FSILGs to<=
br>house second-semester freshmen."<br><br>The proposal can be found a=
t:<br>
<a href=3D"http://fsilg-housing.org/" target=3D"_blank">http://fsilg-housin=
g.org/</a><br><br>Thank you for your time, and I hope everyone has a wonder=
ful IAP!<br>Brian Neltner<br>Class of 2005 -- Course 3 and 8<br>Current PhD=
-- Course 3<br>
<font color=3D"#888888"><br><br>-- <br>-Tim<br>"It's a picture of =
perfection."<br></font></blockquote></div><br></div></div></div></div>=
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br></div></div><font color=3D"#88=
8888">-- <br>
Massachusetts Institute of Technology Class of 2011<br>
Department of Economics | Sloan School of Management<br>
</font></blockquote></div><br>
--00151747bfe21314b9047c347753--
