[98574] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: [ppml] too many variables
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Joel Jaeggli)
Mon Aug 13 17:19:02 2007
Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2007 13:28:44 -0700
From: Joel Jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>
To: John Paul Morrison <jmorrison@bogomips.com>
CC: Paul Vixie <paul@vix.com>, ppml@arin.net, nanog@nanog.org
In-Reply-To: <46C0BAF2.6080409@bogomips.com>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
John Paul Morrison wrote:
> Can't any network problem can be solved by adding another layer of
> indirection?
>
> Don't all the various nodes in a system simply "disappear" when another
> technology comes along to organize, replace and manage the problem
> differently? With iBGP there's been confederations and route-reflectors
> to divide the problem into smaller pieces, even MPLS to remove a lot of
> the scalability issues.
>
> But perhaps in the future, after many more consolidations and
> bankruptcies, there may only be a couple of major carriers left. This
> would solve a lot of BGP decision making algorithms.
Not if one of them is covad...
> You'd either go with the Red ISP or the Blue ISP, just like politics!
Leaving most stake holders poorly served just as they are by blue party
red party. I don't think hoping for a high level of monopoly
consolidation to address the issue of table growth is reasonable.
As an enterprise or individual I'm still going to choose both meaning my
stub-AS and address space will continue to consume slots in the routing
table.
>
>
>
> Paul Vixie wrote:
>>>> ... is that system level (combinatorial) effects would limit Internet
>>>> routing long before moore's law could do so.
>>>>
>>> It is an easy derivative/proxy for the system level effect is all. Bandwidth
>>> for updates (inter and intra system) are another choking point but folks
>>> tend to be even less aware of those than cpu.
>>>
>>
>> is bandwidth the only consideration? number of graph nodes and number of
>> advertised endpoints and churn rate per endpoint don't enter into the limits?
>> at what system size does speed of light begin to enter into the equation?
>>
>> (note, as i told geoff huston: if it seems like john scudder's outbound BGP
>> announcement compression observations are relevant, or that moore's law is
>> relevant, then you're misunderstanding my question or i'm asking it wrong.)
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