[97371] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: UK ISPs v. US ISPs (was RE: Network Level Content Blocking)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Keegan.Holley@sungard.com)
Mon Jun 11 16:14:06 2007
In-Reply-To: <20070611223127.01496ea6.nanog@fa1c52f96c54f7450e1ffb215f29991e.nosense.org>
To: Mark Smith <nanog@fa1c52f96c54f7450e1ffb215f29991e.nosense.org>
Cc: nanog@merit.edu, Sean Donelan <sean@donelan.com>
From: Keegan.Holley@sungard.com
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:41:52 -0400
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
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Keegan Holley
Network Engineer, Network Managed Services
SunGard Availability Services
Mezzanine Level MC-95
401 N. Broad St.
Philadelphia, PA 19108
215.446.1242 (office)
609.670.2149 (cell)
Keegan.Holley@sungard.com
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
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Keeping People and Information Connected=AE
http://www.availability.sungard.com=20
Mark Smith <nanog@fa1c52f96c54f7450e1ffb215f29991e.nosense.org>=20
06/11/2007 09:01 AM
To
Keegan.Holley@sungard.com
cc
Sean Donelan <sean@donelan.com>, nanog@merit.edu
Subject
Re: UK ISPs v. US ISPs (was RE: Network Level Content Blocking)
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:38:20 -0400
Keegan.Holley@sungard.com wrote:
> IMHO, unless it's something blatantly illegal such as kiddie porn and=20
the=20
> like I don't think content filtering is the responsibility of the ISP's. =
> Besides all of the conspiracy theories that are bound to surface, I=20
think=20
> forcing ISP's to block content is a bit like forcing car makers to=20
police=20
> what can be played on the radio. I think that giving parents the option =
> of manually turning off porn sites would be an improvement. Although=20
> still not within the responsibility of the ISP they are in the best=20
place=20
> to implement such a technology. However, I don't like the idea of a=20
> mandatory global traffic filtering initiative.
>=20
>=20
I think in the home is the best place to implement the technology - a
power switch or BIOS password.
I guess that would go for the cell phone and the computer at the friends=20
house as well...
Here is a true analogy. My father worked for a TV station, so you'd
think we'd have the TV on all the time, yet right through up until
after I left high school, my parents wanted to limit my TV watching ...
significantly.
Did you ever have to do homework or check you grades on the TV? Did your=20
mother ever pay bills with the TV? Also, did any child molesters ever try=20
contacting you during the commercials.
How did they do it ?
(a) they didn't buy a TV set and put it in my bedroom - the TV was in a
common area of the house i.e. the lounge and/or dining room
(b) they didn't allow me to watch the TV unsupervised
And you never got up after they went to bed to see what you were missing..
So what I don't understand is why parents put computers in their
childrens' bedrooms and don't supervise their children's Internet use.
Substituting a piece of filtering software that won't ever do as good a
job as a parent in enforcing parental responsibility is just bad
parenting in my opinion, and not the responsibility of government or
ISPs.
I agree but there are many houses where both parents work and the kids for =
better or worse spend alot of time alone. I think it would be a good=20
thing to give them a way to filter what comes into their living rooms. I'm =
probably showing my age with this one but my parents actually caught me=20
downloading porn and tried some of those filters. I actually found a=20
website that explained how to disable it. I think we have come a long way =
from cable TV, both in terms of accessibility and what is deemed=20
appropriate content. Also I think teenagers are different now then they=20
were a few years ago. While a content filtering solution will never be=20
able to replace good parenting and plain common sense. I have no=20
objections to having all three in the same household.
Keegan
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<br><font size=3D2 face=3D"sans-serif">Keegan Holley<br>
Network Engineer, Network Managed Services<br>
SunGard Availability Services<br>
Mezzanine Level MC-95<br>
401 N. Broad St.<br>
Philadelphia, PA 19108<br>
215.446.1242 (office)<br>
609.670.2149 (cell)<br>
Keegan.Holley@sungard.com<br>
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=
=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F<br>
Keeping People and Information Connected=AE<br>
http://www.availability.sungard.com </font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td width=3D40%><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif"><b>Mark Smith <nanog@=
fa1c52f96c54f7450e1ffb215f29991e.nosense.org></b>
</font>
<p><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">06/11/2007 09:01 AM</font>
<td width=3D59%>
<table width=3D100%>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">To</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Keegan.Holley@sungard.com</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">cc</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Sean Donelan <sean@donelan.com>=
;,
nanog@merit.edu</font>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<div align=3Dright><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Subject</font></div>
<td><font size=3D1 face=3D"sans-serif">Re: UK ISPs v. US ISPs (was RE: Netw=
ork
Level Content Blocking)</font></table>
<br>
<table>
<tr valign=3Dtop>
<td>
<td></table>
<br></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:38:20 -0400<br>
Keegan.Holley@sungard.com wrote:<br>
<br>
> IMHO, unless it's something blatantly illegal such as kiddie porn
and the <br>
> like I don't think content filtering is the responsibility of the
ISP's. <br>
> Besides all of the conspiracy theories that are bound to surface,
I think <br>
> forcing ISP's to block content is a bit like forcing car makers to
police <br>
> what can be played on the radio. I think that giving parents
the option <br>
> of manually turning off porn sites would be an improvement. Alth=
ough
<br>
> still not within the responsibility of the ISP they are in the best
place <br>
> to implement such a technology. However, I don't like the idea
of a <br>
> mandatory global traffic filtering initiative.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
<br>
I think in the home is the best place to implement the technology - a<br>
power switch or BIOS password.</font></tt>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>I guess that would go for the cell phone and the com=
puter
at the friends house as well...</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
<br>
Here is a true analogy. My father worked for a TV station, so you'd<br>
think we'd have the TV on all the time, yet right through up until<br>
after I left high school, my parents wanted to limit my TV watching ...<br>
significantly.<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>Did you ever have to do homework or check you grades
on the TV? Did your mother ever pay bills with the TV? Also, did
any child molesters ever try contacting you during the commercials.</font><=
/tt>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
How did they do it ?<br>
<br>
(a) they didn't buy a TV set and put it in my bedroom - the TV was in a<br>
common area of the house i.e. the lounge and/or dining room<br>
<br>
(b) they didn't allow me to watch the TV unsupervised</font></tt>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>And you never got up after they went to bed to see
what you were missing..</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
<br>
So what I don't understand is why parents put computers in their<br>
childrens' bedrooms and don't supervise their children's Internet use.<br>
<br>
Substituting a piece of filtering software that won't ever do as good a<br>
job as a parent in enforcing parental responsibility is just bad<br>
parenting in my opinion, and not the responsibility of government or<br>
ISPs.<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br><tt><font size=3D2>I agree but there are many houses where both parents
work and the kids for better or worse spend alot of time alone. I
think it would be a good thing to give them a way to filter what comes
into their living rooms. I'm probably showing my age with this one
but my parents actually caught me downloading porn and tried some of those
filters. I actually found a website that explained how to disable
it. I think we have come a long way from cable TV, both in terms
of accessibility and what is deemed appropriate content. Also I think
teenagers are different now then they were a few years ago. While
a content filtering solution will never be able to replace good parenting
and plain common sense. I have no objections to having all three
in the same household.</font></tt>
<br><tt><font size=3D2><br>
<br>
Keegan<br>
<br>
<br>
</font></tt>
<br>
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