[95698] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: redefining which infrastructure is the proble [was: Re: On-going ..]
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rod Beck)
Mon Apr 2 10:25:52 2007
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2007 15:16:34 +0100
From: "Rod Beck" <Rod.Beck@hiberniaatlantic.com>
To: "John Levine" <johnl@iecc.com>, <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
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Hi John,=20
No where in that email did I say Spamhaus was an American organization.=20
So let's not be petty.=20
As for Spamahaus' professionalism, I would be point that some =
organizations that use opt-in list still get hit by Spamhaus either =
because the end users complained after apparently=20
1. forgetting that they had opted into the list
2. or they changed their mind.=20
Many of the biggest publishing houses now run their email operations =
overseas precisely because they are tired of dealing with Spamhaus =
complaints
The question is how is to achieve accountability.=20
I don't think volunteer organizations are ideal from an accountability =
point of view.=20
Regards,=20
Roderick S. Beck
Hibernia Atlantic
30 Dongan Place, NY, NY 10040
http://www.hiberniaatlantic.com
Landline: 1-212-942-3345
Wireless: 1-212-444-8829.=20
rod.beck@hiberniaatlantic.com
rodbeck@erols.com
``Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.'' =
Albert Einstein.=20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Levine [mailto:johnl@iecc.com]
Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 3:03 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Cc: Rod Beck
Subject: Re: redefining which infrastructure is the proble [was: Re: =
On-going ..]
=20
>I rarely post, but that is clearly a problem. The Americans seem to
>believe in the presumption of guilt and the infallibility of
>accusation. As an American born and bred I can hardly be accused of
>bias.
>Clearly spam is a serious problem in terms of draining network
>resources, but organizations like Spamhaus don't even do an
>investigation.
Even if this were on-topic, don't you think it would a good idea to
make at least a cursory attempt to get your facts straight? Spamhaus
is located in the UK, I personally know multiple Spamhaus volunteers
who spend vast amounts of time resarching their blacklist entries,
and they put large dossiers on their web site to document them.
ObOperations: Spamhaus publishes a drop list of IP ranges intended for
your router that I heartily recommend. It is much smaller than their
mail blacklist, chosen to include only network ranges with no
socically redeeming value at all.
R's,
John
Hi Joe,=20
I know some organizations that use opt-in list and yet got complaints =
either because the end users complained after apparently=20
1. forgetting that they opted into the list
2. or they changed their mind.=20
Many of the biggest publishing houses now run their email operations =
overseas precisely because they are tired dealing with Spamhaus.=20
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attached to this e-mail are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an =
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<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Hi John,<BR>
<BR>
No where in that email did I say Spamhaus was an American =
organization.<BR>
<BR>
So let's not be petty.<BR>
<BR>
As for Spamahaus' professionalism, I would be point that some =
organizations that use opt-in list still get hit by Spamhaus either =
because the end users complained after apparently<BR>
1. forgetting that they had opted into the list<BR>
2. or they changed their mind.<BR>
<BR>
Many of the biggest publishing houses now run their email operations =
overseas precisely because they are tired of dealing with Spamhaus =
complaints<BR>
<BR>
The question is how is to achieve accountability.<BR>
<BR>
I don't think volunteer organizations are ideal from an accountability =
point of view.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
<BR>
Roderick S. Beck<BR>
Hibernia Atlantic<BR>
30 Dongan Place, NY, NY 10040<BR>
<A =
HREF=3D"http://www.hiberniaatlantic.com">http://www.hiberniaatlantic.com<=
/A><BR>
Landline: 1-212-942-3345<BR>
Wireless: 1-212-444-8829.<BR>
rod.beck@hiberniaatlantic.com<BR>
rodbeck@erols.com<BR>
``Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.'' =
Albert Einstein.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
-----Original Message-----<BR>
From: John Levine [<A =
HREF=3D"mailto:johnl@iecc.com">mailto:johnl@iecc.com</A>]<BR>
Sent: Mon 4/2/2007 3:03 PM<BR>
To: nanog@nanog.org<BR>
Cc: Rod Beck<BR>
Subject: Re: redefining which infrastructure is the proble [was: Re: =
On-going ..]<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I rarely post, but that is clearly a problem. The Americans seem =
to<BR>
>believe in the presumption of guilt and the infallibility of<BR>
>accusation. As an American born and bred I can hardly be accused =
of<BR>
>bias.<BR>
<BR>
>Clearly spam is a serious problem in terms of draining network<BR>
>resources, but organizations like Spamhaus don't even do an<BR>
>investigation.<BR>
<BR>
Even if this were on-topic, don't you think it would a good idea to<BR>
make at least a cursory attempt to get your facts straight? =
Spamhaus<BR>
is located in the UK, I personally know multiple Spamhaus volunteers<BR>
who spend vast amounts of time resarching their blacklist entries,<BR>
and they put large dossiers on their web site to document them.<BR>
<BR>
ObOperations: Spamhaus publishes a drop list of IP ranges intended =
for<BR>
your router that I heartily recommend. It is much smaller than =
their<BR>
mail blacklist, chosen to include only network ranges with no<BR>
socically redeeming value at all.<BR>
<BR>
R's,<BR>
John<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Hi Joe,<BR>
<BR>
I know some organizations that use opt-in list and yet got complaints =
either because the end users complained after apparently<BR>
1. forgetting that they opted into the list<BR>
2. or they changed their mind.<BR>
<BR>
Many of the biggest publishing houses now run their email operations =
overseas precisely because they are tired dealing with Spamhaus. =
</FONT></P>
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recipient of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any =
dissemination, distribution or copying of this email, and any =
attachments thereto, without the prior written permission of the sender =
is strictly prohibited. If you receive this e-mail in error, please =
immediately telephone or e-mail the sender and permanently delete the =
original copy and any copy of this e-mail, and any printout thereof. All =
documents, contracts or agreements referred or attached to this e-mail =
are SUBJECT TO CONTRACT. The contents of an attachment to this e-mail =
may contain software viruses that could damage your own computer system. =
While Hibernia Atlantic has taken every reasonable precaution to =
minimize this risk, we cannot accept liability for any damage that you =
sustain as a result of software viruses. You should carry out your own =
virus checks before opening any =
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