[94397] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Network end users to pull down 2 gigabytes a day, continuously?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (D.H. van der Woude)
Sun Jan 21 12:17:51 2007
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2007 18:15:52 +0100
From: "D.H. van der Woude" <dirkvanderwoude@gmail.com>
To: nanog@merit.edu
In-Reply-To: <92AD6A05-4E68-4AAF-93D4-B1BC70609443@ca.afilias.info>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
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There 's other developments as well...
Simple Minds and Motorpyscho live. Mashed Up.
Still need to get a better grip on what the new world of Mashup business
models
<http://www.capgemini.com/ctoblog/2006/11/mashup_corporations_the_shape.php=
>really
is leading to? Have a look at this new mashup service of
Fabchannel<http://www.fabchannel.com/>:
until now 'just' an award-winning website which gave its members access to
videos of rock concerts in Amsterdam's famous
Paradiso<http://www..paradiso.nl/>concert hall. Not any more. Today
Fabchannel launched a new,
unique service<http://fabchannel.blogspot.com/2007/01/fabchannel-releases-u=
nique-embedded.html>which
enables music fans to create their own, custom made concert videos and
then share them with others through their blogs, community profiles,
websites or any other application.
So suppose you have this weird music taste, which sort of urges you to
create an ideal concert featuring the Simple Minds, Motorpsycho, The Fun
Loving Criminals, Ojos de Brujo and Bauer & the Metrople Orchestra. *Just
suppose it's true*. The only thing you need to do is click this concert
together at Fabchannel's site =96 choosing from the many hundreds of videos
available -, customize it with your own tags, image and description and the=
n
have Fabchannel automatically create the few lines of html code that you
need to embed this tailor-made concert in whatever web application you want=
.
As Fabchannel put it in their announcement, "this makes live concerts
available to fans all over the world. Not centralised in one place, but
where the fans gather online". And this is precisely the major concept
behind the Mashup Corporation <http://www.mashupcorporations.com/>: - suppl=
y
the outside world with simple, embeddable, services =96 support and facilit=
ate
the community that starts to use them and =96 watch growth and innovation t=
ake
place in many unexpected ways.
Fabchannel expects to attract many more fans than they currently do. Not by
having more hits at their website, but rather through the potentially
thousands and thousands of blogs, myspace pages, websites, forums and
desktop widgets that all could reach their own niche group of music fans,
mashing up the Fabplayer service with many other services that the
Fabchannel crew =96 no matter how creative =96 would have never thought of.
Maximise your growth, attract less people to your site. Sounds like a
paradox. But not in a Mashup world.
By all means view my customised concert, underneath. I'm particularly fond
of the Barcelonan band Ojos de Brujo, with their very special mix of classi=
c
flamenco, hip hop and funk. Mashup music indeed. In all respects.
http://www.capgemini.com/ctoblog/2007/01/simple_minds_and_motorpyscho_l.php
On 1/21/07, Joe Abley <jabley@ca.afilias.info> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 21-Jan-2007, at 07:14, Alexander Harrowell wrote:
>
> > Regarding your first point, it's really surprising that existing
> > P2P applications don't include topology awareness. After all, the
> > underlying TCP already has mechanisms to perceive the relative
> > nearness of a network entity - counting hops or round-trip latency.
> > Imagine a BT-like client that searches for available torrents, and
> > records the round-trip time to each host it contacts. These it
> > places in a lookup table and picks the fastest responders to
> > initiate the data transfer. Those are likely to be the closest, if
> > not in distance then topologically, and the ones with the most
> > bandwidth. Further, imagine that it caches the search - so when
> > you next seek a file, it checks for it first on the hosts nearest
> > to it in its "routing table", stepping down progressively if it's
> > not there. It's a form of local-pref.
>
> Remember though that the dynamics of the system need to assume that
> individual clients will be selfish, and even though it might be in
> the interests of the network as a whole to choose local peers, if you
> can get faster *throughput* (not round-trip response) from a remote
> peer, it's a necessary assumption that the peer will do so.
>
> Protocols need to be designed such that a client is rewarded in
> faster downloads for uploading in a fashion that best benefits the
> swarm.
>
> > The third step is for content producers to directly add their torrents
> > to the ISP peers before releasing the torrent directly to the public.
> > This gets "official" content pre-positioned for efficient
> > distribution,
> > making it perform better (from a user's perspective) than pirated
> > content.
>
> If there was a big fast server in every ISP with a monstrous pile of
> disk which retrieved torrents automatically from a selection of
> popular RSS feeds, which kept seeding torrents for as long as there
> was interest and/or disk, and which had some rate shaping installed
> on the host such that traffic that wasn't on-net (e.g. to/from
> customers) or free (e.g. to/from peers) was rate-crippled, how far
> would that go to emulating this behaviour with existing live
> torrents? Speaking from a technical perspective only, and ignoring
> the legal minefield.
>
> If anybody has tried this, I'd be interested to hear whether on-net
> clients actually take advantage of the local monster seed, or whether
> they persist in pulling data from elsewhere.
>
>
> Joe
>
>
--=20
Evolution favors speed and that's why bacteria rule
and we're just baggage living off their ecology.
--Bob Frankston
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There 's other developments as well...<br><br><h2 class=3D"lead">Simple=
Minds and Motorpyscho live. Mashed Up.</h2>
=20
=20
=20
<div class=3D"entry-body-blog">
<p>Still need to get a better grip on what th=
e new world of <a href=3D"http://www.capgemini.com/ctoblog/2006/11/mashup_c=
orporations_the_shape.php">Mashup business models </a>really is leading to?=
Have a look at this new mashup service of=20
<a href=3D"http://www.fabchannel.com/">Fabchannel</a>: until now 'just' an =
award-winning website which gave its members access to videos of rock conce=
rts in Amsterdam's famous <a href=3D"http://www..paradiso.nl/">Paradiso</a>
concert hall. Not any more. Today Fabchannel launched a <a href=3D"http://=
fabchannel.blogspot.com/2007/01/fabchannel-releases-unique-embedded.html">n=
ew, unique service</a>
which enables music fans to create their own, custom made concert
videos and then share them with others through their blogs, community
profiles, websites or any other application.</p>
<p>So suppose you have this weird music taste, which sort of urges you
to create an ideal concert featuring the Simple Minds, Motorpsycho, The
Fun Loving Criminals, Ojos de Brujo and Bauer & the Metrople
Orchestra. <em>Just suppose it's true</em>. The only thing you need to
do is click this concert together at Fabchannel's site =96 choosing from
the many hundreds of videos available -, customize it with your own
tags, image and description and then have Fabchannel automatically
create the few lines of html code that you need to embed this
tailor-made concert in whatever web application you want.</p>
</div>
=20
<p>As
Fabchannel put it in their announcement, "this makes live concerts
available to fans all over the world. Not centralised in one place, but
where the fans gather online". And this is precisely the major concept
behind the <a href=3D"http://www.mashupcorporations.com/">Mashup Corporatio=
n</a>:
- supply the outside world with simple, embeddable, services =96 support
and facilitate the community that starts to use them and =96 watch growth
and innovation take place in many unexpected ways.</p>
<p>Fabchannel expects to attract many more fans than they currently do.
Not by having more hits at their website, but rather through the
potentially thousands and thousands of blogs, myspace pages, websites,
forums and desktop widgets that all could reach their own niche group
of music fans, mashing up the Fabplayer service with many other
services that the Fabchannel crew =96 no matter how creative =96 would have
never thought of.</p>
<p>Maximise your growth, attract less people to your site. Sounds like a pa=
radox. But not in a Mashup world.</p>
<p>By all means view my customised concert, underneath. I'm
particularly fond of the Barcelonan band Ojos de Brujo, with their very
special mix of classic flamenco, hip hop and funk. Mashup music indeed.
In all respects.</p><span style=3D"font-style: italic;"><a href=3D"http://w=
ww.capgemini.com/ctoblog/2007/01/simple_minds_and_motorpyscho_l.php">http:/=
/www.capgemini.com/ctoblog/2007/01/simple_minds_and_motorpyscho_l.php</a></=
span>
<br><br><div><span class=3D"gmail_quote">On 1/21/07, <b class=3D"gmail_send=
ername">Joe Abley</b> <<a href=3D"mailto:jabley@ca.afilias.info">jabley@=
ca.afilias.info</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; =
padding-left: 1ex;">
<br><br>On 21-Jan-2007, at 07:14, Alexander Harrowell wrote:<br><br>> Re=
garding your first point, it's really surprising that existing<br>> =
P2P applications don't include topology awareness. After all, the<br>
> underlying TCP already has mechanisms to perceive the relative<br>>=
nearness of a network entity - counting hops or round-trip latency.<br>>=
; Imagine a BT-like client that searches for available torrents, and<br>
> records the round-trip time to each host it contacts. These it<br>>=
places in a lookup table and picks the fastest responders to<br>> initi=
ate the data transfer. Those are likely to be the closest, if<br>> not i=
n distance then topologically, and the ones with the most
<br>> bandwidth. Further, imagine that it caches the search -  =
;so when<br>> you next seek a file, it checks for it first on the hosts =
nearest<br>> to it in its "routing table", stepping down progr=
essively if it's
<br>> not there. It's a form of local-pref.<br><br>Remember though t=
hat the dynamics of the system need to assume that<br>individual clients wi=
ll be selfish, and even though it might be in<br>the interests of the netwo=
rk as a whole to choose local peers, if you
<br>can get faster *throughput* (not round-trip response) from a remote<br>=
peer, it's a necessary assumption that the peer will do so.<br><br>Prot=
ocols need to be designed such that a client is rewarded in<br>faster downl=
oads for uploading in a fashion that best benefits the
<br>swarm.<br><br>> The third step is for content producers to directly =
add their torrents<br>> to the ISP peers before releasing the torrent di=
rectly to the public.<br>> This gets "official" content pre-po=
sitioned for efficient
<br>> distribution,<br>> making it perform better (from a user's =
perspective) than pirated<br>> content.<br><br>If there was a big fast s=
erver in every ISP with a monstrous pile of<br>disk which retrieved torrent=
s automatically from a selection of
<br>popular RSS feeds, which kept seeding torrents for as long as there<br>=
was interest and/or disk, and which had some rate shaping installed<br>on t=
he host such that traffic that wasn't on-net (e.g. to/from<br>customers=
) or free (
e.g. to/from peers) was rate-crippled, how far<br>would that go to emulatin=
g this behaviour with existing live<br>torrents? Speaking from a technical =
perspective only, and ignoring<br>the legal minefield.<br><br>If anybody ha=
s tried this, I'd be interested to hear whether on-net
<br>clients actually take advantage of the local monster seed, or whether<b=
r>they persist in pulling data from elsewhere.<br><br><br>Joe<br><br></bloc=
kquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>Evolution favors speed and th=
at's why bacteria rule
<br>and we're just baggage living off their ecology.<br>--Bob Frankston
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