[94040] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Network end users to pull down 2 gigabytes a day, continuously?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Gian Constantine)
Sun Jan 7 10:31:22 2007
In-Reply-To: <459F4724.2040100@thomasleavitt.org>
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
From: Gian Constantine <constantinegi@corp.earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:27:25 -0500
To: Thomas Leavitt <thomas@thomasleavitt.org>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
--Apple-Mail-1-897884946
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You know, when it's all said and done, streaming video may be the =20
motivator for migrating the large scale Internet to IPv6. I do not =20
see unicast streaming as a long term solution for video service. In =20
the short term, unicast streaming and PushVoD models may prevail, but =20=
the ultimate solution is Internet-wide multicasting.
I want my m6bone. :-)
Gian Anthony Constantine
Senior Network Design Engineer
Earthlink, Inc.
On Jan 6, 2007, at 1:52 AM, Thomas Leavitt wrote:
> If this application takes off, I have to presume that everyone's =20
> baseline network usage metrics can be tossed out the window...
>
> Thomas
>
>
>
> From: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
> Subject: Using Venice Project? Better get yourself a non-capping =20
> ISP...
> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:11:46 -0500
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "D.H. van der Woude" <dirkvanderwoude@gmail.com>
> Date: January 5, 2007 11:06:31 AM EST
> To: dave@farber.net
> Subject: Using Venice Project? Better get yourself a non-capping =20
> ISP...
>
>
> I am one of Venice' beta testers. Works like a charm,
> admittedly with a 20/1 Mbs ADSL2+ connection and
> a unlimited use ISP.
>
> Even at sub-DVD quality the data use is staggering...
>
> Venice Project would break many users' ISP conditions
> http://www.out-law.com/page-7604
> OUT-LAW News, 03/01/2007
>
> Internet television system The Venice Project could break users' =20
> monthly internet bandwith limits in hours, according to the team =20
> behind it.
>
> It downloads 320 megabytes (MB) per hour from users' computers, =20
> meaning that users could reach their monthly download limits in =20
> hours and that it could be unusable for bandwidth-capped users.
>
> The Venice Project is the new system being developed by Janus Friis =20=
> and Niklas Zennstr=F6m, the Scandinavian entrepreneurs behind the =20
> revolutionary services Kazaa and Skype. It is currently being used =20
> by 6,000 beta testers and is due to be launched next year.
>
> The data transfer rate is revealed in the documentation sent to =20
> beta testers and the instructions make it very clear what the =20
> bandwidth requirements are so that users are not caught out.
>
> Under a banner saying 'Important notice for users with limits on =20
> their internet usage', the document says: "The Venice Project is a =20
> streaming video application, and so uses a relatively high amount =20
> of bandwidth per hour. One hour of viewing is 320MB downloaded and =20
> 105 Megabytes uploaded, which means that it will exhaust a 1 =20
> Gigabyte cap in 10 hours. Also, the application continues to run in =20=
> the background after you close the main window."
>
> "For this reason, if you pay for your bandwidth usage per megabyte =20
> or have your usage capped by your ISP, you should be careful to =20
> always exit the Venice Project client completely when you are =20
> finished watching it," says the document
>
> Many ISPs offer broadband connections which are unlimited to use by =20=
> time, but have limits on the amount of data that can be transferred =20=
> over the connection each month. Though limits are 'advisory' and =20
> not strict, users who regularly far exceed the limits break the =20
> terms of their deals.
>
> BT's most basic broadband package BT Total Broadband Package 1, for =20=
> example, has a 2GB monthly 'usage guideline'. This would be reached =20=
> after 20 hours of viewing.
>
> The software is also likely to transfer data even when not being =20
> used. The Venice system is going to run on a peer-to-peer (P2P) =20
> network, which means that users host and send the programmes to =20
> other users in an automated system.
>
> OUT-LAW has seen screenshots from the system and talked to one of =20
> the testers of it, who reports very favourably on its use. "This is =20=
> going to be the one. I've used some of the other software out there =20=
> and it's fine, but my dad could use this, they've just got it =20
> right," he said. "It looks great, you fire it up and in two minutes =20=
> you're live, you're watching television."
>
> The source said that claims being made for the system being "near =20
> high definition" in terms of picture quality are wide of the mark. =20
> "It's not high definition. It's the same as normal television," he =20
> said.
>
>
>
>
> -- "Private where private belongs, public where it's needed, and an =20=
> admission that circumstances alter cases." Robert A. Heinlein, 1969
>
> --=20
> Thomas Leavitt - thomas@thomasleavitt.org - 831-295-3917 (cell)
>
> *** Independent Systems and Network Consultant, Santa Cruz, CA ***
>
> <thomas.vcf>
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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">You know, when it's all said and =
done, streaming video may be the motivator for migrating the large scale =
Internet to IPv6. I do not see unicast streaming as a long term solution =
for video service. In the short term, unicast streaming and PushVoD =
models may prevail, but the ultimate solution is Internet-wide =
multicasting.<DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>I =
want my m6bone. :-)</DIV><DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN class=3D"Apple-style-span" =
style=3D"border-collapse: separate; border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>Gian Anthony =
Constantine</DIV><DIV>Senior Network Design =
Engineer</DIV><DIV>Earthlink, Inc.</DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> =
</DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Jan 6, 2007, at 1:52 AM, Thomas Leavitt =
wrote:</DIV><BR class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">If this application takes off, I =
have to presume that everyone's baseline network usage metrics can be =
tossed out the window...</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Thomas</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: David Farber <<A =
href=3D"mailto:dave@farber.net">dave@farber.net</A>></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Using Venice Project? Better get yourself a =
non-capping ISP...</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 =
11:11:46 -0500</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Begin =
forwarded message:</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">From: "D.H. van der Woude" =
<<A =
href=3D"mailto:dirkvanderwoude@gmail.com">dirkvanderwoude@gmail.com</A>>=
;</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: =
0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Date: January 5, 2007 11:06:31 AM EST</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">To: <A =
href=3D"mailto:dave@farber.net">dave@farber.net</A></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Subject: Using Venice Project? Better get yourself a =
non-capping ISP...</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">I am one of Venice' beta testers. Works like a =
charm,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">admittedly with a 20/1 Mbs =
ADSL2+ connection and</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">a unlimited use =
ISP.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Even at sub-DVD quality the data use is =
staggering...</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Venice Project would break many users' ISP =
conditions</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A =
href=3D"http://www.out-law.com/page-7604">http://www.out-law.com/page-7604=
</A></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">OUT-LAW News, =
03/01/2007</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Internet television system The Venice Project could =
break users' monthly internet bandwith limits in hours, according to the =
team behind it.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">It downloads 320 megabytes (MB) per hour from users' =
computers, meaning that users could reach their monthly download limits =
in hours and that it could be unusable for bandwidth-capped =
users.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">The Venice Project is the new system being developed =
by Janus Friis and Niklas Zennstr=F6m, the Scandinavian entrepreneurs =
behind the revolutionary services Kazaa and Skype. It is currently being =
used by 6,000 beta testers and is due to be launched next =
year.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">The data transfer rate is revealed in the =
documentation sent to beta testers and the instructions make it very =
clear what the bandwidth requirements are so that users are not caught =
out.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Under a banner saying 'Important notice for users =
with limits on their internet usage', the document says: "The Venice =
Project is a streaming video application, and so uses a relatively high =
amount of bandwidth per hour. One hour of viewing is 320MB downloaded =
and 105 Megabytes uploaded, which means that it will exhaust a 1 =
Gigabyte cap in 10 hours. Also, the application continues to run in the =
background after you close the main window."</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">"For =
this reason, if you pay for your bandwidth usage per megabyte or have =
your usage capped by your ISP, you should be careful to always exit the =
Venice Project client completely when you are finished watching it," =
says the document</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Many ISPs offer broadband connections which are =
unlimited to use by time, but have limits on the amount of data that can =
be transferred over the connection each month. Though limits are =
'advisory' and not strict, users who regularly far exceed the limits =
break the terms of their deals.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">BT's most basic broadband =
package BT Total Broadband Package 1, for example, has a 2GB monthly =
'usage guideline'. This would be reached after 20 hours of =
viewing.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">The software is also likely to transfer data even =
when not being used. The Venice system is going to run on a peer-to-peer =
(P2P) network, which means that users host and send the programmes to =
other users in an automated system.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">OUT-LAW has seen screenshots =
from the system and talked to one of the testers of it, who reports very =
favourably on its use. "This is going to be the one. I've used some of =
the other software out there and it's fine, but my dad could use this, =
they've just got it right," he said. "It looks great, you fire it up and =
in two minutes you're live, you're watching television."</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The =
source said that claims being made for the system being "near high =
definition" in terms of picture quality are wide of the mark. "It's not =
high definition. It's the same as normal television," he said.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: =
14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">-- "Private where private belongs, public where it's =
needed, and an admission that circumstances alter cases." Robert A. =
Heinlein, 1969</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">--<SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">=A0</SPAN></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Thomas =
Leavitt - <A =
href=3D"mailto:thomas@thomasleavitt.org">thomas@thomasleavitt.org</A> - =
831-295-3917 (cell)</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">*** Independent Systems and =
Network Consultant, Santa Cruz, CA ***</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
min-height: 14px; =
"><BR><SPAN><DIV><thomas.vcf></DIV></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><=
BR></DIV></BODY></HTML>=
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