[94010] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Network end users to pull down 2 gigabytes a day, continuously?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Marshall Eubanks)
Sat Jan 6 07:46:51 2007
In-Reply-To: <459F4724.2040100@thomasleavitt.org>
Cc: nanog Gripes <nanog@merit.edu>
From: Marshall Eubanks <tme@multicasttech.com>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2007 07:30:26 -0500
To: Thomas Leavitt <thomas@thomasleavitt.org>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
Hello;
On Jan 6, 2007, at 1:52 AM, Thomas Leavitt wrote:
> If this application takes off, I have to presume that everyone's =20
> baseline network usage metrics can be tossed out the window...
>
> Thomas
>
>
You should probably do that anyway, if you are worried about Venice, =20
because Venice is just a video service.
320 megabytes (MB) / hour is 711 Kbps, which is comparable to pretty =20
much any high quality video streaming
service. My AmericaFree.TV streaming service offers right now, for =20
example, 500 Kbps and 250 Kbps simulcast video
streaming, with trials of 1 Mbps HD, and users consistently pick the =20
higher bit rate by a 3:1 to 4:1 margin.
(See http://www.americafree.tv/audience/=20
QTSS_statistics.video1.total.png for an example of how stable this =20
user choice is.)
P2P is a bandwidth sharing mechanism, not a audience generation =20
mechanism. As streaming video takes off, it will
use more or less the same amounts of bandwidth, P2P or no, as long as =20=
the underlying transport is unicast, not multicast, because the =20
bandwidth usage is ultimately determined by the audience. (At least =20
we offer multicast simulcasts. If you don't like our bandwidth usage, =20=
enable multicast.)
Regards
Marshall
>
> From: David Farber <dave@farber.net>
> Subject: Using Venice Project? Better get yourself a non-capping =20
> ISP...
> Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 11:11:46 -0500
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> From: "D.H. van der Woude" <dirkvanderwoude@gmail.com>
> Date: January 5, 2007 11:06:31 AM EST
> To: dave@farber.net
> Subject: Using Venice Project? Better get yourself a non-capping =20
> ISP...
>
>
> I am one of Venice' beta testers. Works like a charm,
> admittedly with a 20/1 Mbs ADSL2+ connection and
> a unlimited use ISP.
>
> Even at sub-DVD quality the data use is staggering...
>
> Venice Project would break many users' ISP conditions
> http://www.out-law.com/page-7604
> OUT-LAW News, 03/01/2007
>
> Internet television system The Venice Project could break users' =20
> monthly internet bandwith limits in hours, according to the team =20
> behind it.
>
> It downloads 320 megabytes (MB) per hour from users' computers, =20
> meaning that users could reach their monthly download limits in =20
> hours and that it could be unusable for bandwidth-capped users.
>
> The Venice Project is the new system being developed by Janus Friis =20=
> and Niklas Zennstr=F6m, the Scandinavian entrepreneurs behind the =20
> revolutionary services Kazaa and Skype. It is currently being used =20
> by 6,000 beta testers and is due to be launched next year.
>
> The data transfer rate is revealed in the documentation sent to =20
> beta testers and the instructions make it very clear what the =20
> bandwidth requirements are so that users are not caught out.
>
> Under a banner saying 'Important notice for users with limits on =20
> their internet usage', the document says: "The Venice Project is a =20
> streaming video application, and so uses a relatively high amount =20
> of bandwidth per hour. One hour of viewing is 320MB downloaded and =20
> 105 Megabytes uploaded, which means that it will exhaust a 1 =20
> Gigabyte cap in 10 hours. Also, the application continues to run in =20=
> the background after you close the main window."
>
> "For this reason, if you pay for your bandwidth usage per megabyte =20
> or have your usage capped by your ISP, you should be careful to =20
> always exit the Venice Project client completely when you are =20
> finished watching it," says the document
>
> Many ISPs offer broadband connections which are unlimited to use by =20=
> time, but have limits on the amount of data that can be transferred =20=
> over the connection each month. Though limits are 'advisory' and =20
> not strict, users who regularly far exceed the limits break the =20
> terms of their deals.
>
> BT's most basic broadband package BT Total Broadband Package 1, for =20=
> example, has a 2GB monthly 'usage guideline'. This would be reached =20=
> after 20 hours of viewing.
>
> The software is also likely to transfer data even when not being =20
> used. The Venice system is going to run on a peer-to-peer (P2P) =20
> network, which means that users host and send the programmes to =20
> other users in an automated system.
>
> OUT-LAW has seen screenshots from the system and talked to one of =20
> the testers of it, who reports very favourably on its use. "This is =20=
> going to be the one. I've used some of the other software out there =20=
> and it's fine, but my dad could use this, they've just got it =20
> right," he said. "It looks great, you fire it up and in two minutes =20=
> you're live, you're watching television."
>
> The source said that claims being made for the system being "near =20
> high definition" in terms of picture quality are wide of the mark. =20
> "It's not high definition. It's the same as normal television," he =20
> said.
>
>
>
>
> -- "Private where private belongs, public where it's needed, and an =20=
> admission that circumstances alter cases." Robert A. Heinlein, 1969
>
> --=20
> Thomas Leavitt - thomas@thomasleavitt.org - 831-295-3917 (cell)
>
> *** Independent Systems and Network Consultant, Santa Cruz, CA ***
>
> <thomas.vcf>
