[92172] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Kremen VS Arin Antitrust Lawsuit - Anyone have feedback?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (joe mcguckin)
Fri Sep 8 15:39:43 2006
In-Reply-To: <20060908185745.CEECA287FD@noc.mainstreet.net>
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
From: joe mcguckin <joe@via.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 12:38:36 -0700
To: Mark Kent <mark@noc.mainstreet.net>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
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Mark,
A more 'correct' analogy would be as follows:
Let's say you win a judgement against another party where the
court essentially awards you all the assets of the
defendant. One of the assets is a paging company. So, you hike
down to the FCC and want the radio licenses for the business
re-registered in your name, you present a valid court order to
show that the court has awarded you title to the assets. In fact,
you present a court order specifically ordering the FCC to re-
register the licensed spectrum to you.
How can the FCC refuse? Any court with proper jurisdiction certainly
has the ability to assess damages and specify remedies for those
damages. A station license or spectrum - even though is not actual
ownership, but a lease or license - is an asset and routinely are sold
for millions, even billions of dollars.
More to the point, how can ARIN refuse such an order?
Joe McGuckin
ViaNet Communications
joe@via.net
650-207-0372 cell
650-213-1302 office
650-969-2124 fax
On Sep 8, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Mark Kent wrote:
>
> Joe McGuckin typed:
>>> 2) Why does ARIN believe that it can ignore a court order?
>
> Maybe because ARIN wasn't a party to the original proceedings
> that generated that order?
>
> Let's say you're eating lunch one day, minding your own business,
> and a sheriff comes up with an official looking document and
> says "You need to hand your car over to Fred..." because,
> unknown to you, Fred and Barney just finished court proceedings
> where the judge ruled that Barney had to give Fred "his" car,
> even though that car was owned by you and just loaned to Barney.
>
> Not a great analogy, because of the whole pink slip thing,
> but you get the point.
>
> -mark
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"><DIV>Mark,</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>A =
more 'correct' analogy would be as follows:</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0Let's say you win =
a judgement against another party where the court essentially awards you =
all the assets of the=A0</DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0defendant. One of the =
assets is a paging company. So,=A0 you hike down to the FCC and want the =
radio licenses for the business</DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0re-registered=A0in =
your name, you present a valid court order to show that the court has =
awarded you title to the assets. In fact,</DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0you =
present a court order specifically ordering the FCC to re-register the =
licensed spectrum to you.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>How can the FCC refuse? Any =
court with proper jurisdiction certainly has the ability to assess =
damages and specify remedies for those</DIV><DIV>damages. A station =
license or spectrum - even though is not actual ownership, but a lease =
or license - is an asset and routinely are sold</DIV><DIV>for millions, =
even billions of dollars.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>More to the point, how can =
ARIN refuse such an order?</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Joe =
McGuckin</DIV><DIV>ViaNet Communications</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><A =
href=3D"mailto:joe@via.net">joe@via.net</A></DIV><DIV>650-207-0372 =
cell</DIV><DIV>650-213-1302 office</DIV><DIV>650-969-2124 =
fax</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN> =
</DIV><BR><DIV><DIV>On Sep 8, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Mark Kent =
wrote:</DIV><BR class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Joe McGuckin typed:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE =
type=3D"cite"><BLOCKQUOTE type=3D"cite"><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) Why does =
ARIN believe that it can ignore a court order?</DIV> =
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Maybe because ARIN wasn't a =
party to the original proceedings</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that =
generated that order?</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: =
0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; =
"><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Let's say you're eating lunch =
one day, minding your own business,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and a sheriff =
comes up with an official looking document and</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">says "You need to hand your car over to Fred..." =
because,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">unknown to you, Fred and Barney =
just finished court proceedings</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; =
margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">where the =
judge ruled that Barney had to give Fred "his" car,</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">even though that car was owned by you and just =
loaned to Barney.</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; ">Not a great analogy, because of the whole pink slip =
thing,</DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; =
margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but you get the point.</DIV><DIV =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style=3D"margin-top: =
0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; =
">-mark</DIV> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BODY></HTML>=
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