[92161] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: [Fwd: Kremen VS Arin Antitrust Lawsuit - Anyone have feedback?]
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (joe mcguckin)
Fri Sep 8 13:37:41 2006
In-Reply-To: <45018713.1010204@kanren.net>
From: joe mcguckin <joe@via.net>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2006 10:36:34 -0700
To: nanog@merit.edu
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
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I read the complaint. I don't like the fact that a lot of my friends
are named in the suit, but I think there are some
points worth discussing within the community:
1) IP address blocks are not 'property'
"Domains are not property. The assignee of a domain has no
ownership interest"
Network Solutions made this same argument years ago. That was
their shield against lawsuits when negligence
(or worse) on NetSols part would cause a domain to be
erroneously transferred. When mistakes were made,
Network Solutions was notoriously unwilling to reverse the
transaction to correct the error.
Then they got sued for refusing to reverse a fradulent domain
transfer, and they lost. The case had the side effect of setting
the precedent that domains *are* in fact tangible property. Now
when a registrar or registry makes a mistake, they can be
legally held responsible. (What case was that? Kremen v. Network
Solutions)
I would say that's an improvement.
2) Why does ARIN believe that it can ignore a court order?
3) What's wrong with treating assignments like property and setting
up a market to buy and sell them? There's plenty of precedent for this:
Mineral rights, mining claims, Oil and gas leases, radio spectrum.
If a given commodity is truly scarce, nothing works as good as
the free market in encouraging consumers to conserve and make the best
use of it.
Joe McGuckin
ViaNet Communications
joe@via.net
650-207-0372 cell
650-213-1302 office
650-969-2124 fax
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<HTML><BODY style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; =
-khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV>I read the complaint. I =
don't like the fact that a lot of my friends are named in the suit, but =
I think there are some</DIV><DIV>points worth discussing within the =
community:</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV>1) IP =
address blocks are not 'property'<DIV><BR><DIV> <SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><SPAN =
class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
border-spacing: 0px 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; =
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; text-align: auto; =
-khtml-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; =
-apple-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; =
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><DIV>=A0=A0 =
=A0"Domains are not=A0 property. The assignee of a domain has no =
ownership interest"</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0Network Solutions =
made this same argument=A0 years ago. That was their shield against =
lawsuits when negligence</DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0(or worse) on NetSols part =
would cause a domain to be=A0erroneously transferred. When mistakes were =
made,</DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0Network Solutions was notoriously unwilling to =
reverse the transaction to correct the error.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0Then they got =
sued for refusing to reverse a fradulent domain transfer, and they lost. =
The case had the side effect of setting=A0</DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =A0the =
precedent that domains *are* in fact tangible=A0property. Now when a =
registrar or registry makes a mistake, they can be=A0</DIV><DIV>=A0=A0 =
=A0legally held responsible. (What case was that? Kremen v. Network =
Solutions)</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>=A0=A0=
=A0I would say that's an improvement.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>2) Why does ARIN believe =
that it can ignore a court order?</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>3) What's wrong with =
treating assignments like property and setting up a market to buy and =
sell them? There's plenty of precedent for this:</DIV><DIV>=A0 =A0 =
=A0Mineral rights, mining claims, Oil and gas leases, radio =
spectrum.=A0</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>=A0=
=A0 =A0If a given commodity is truly scarce, nothing works as good as =
the free market in encouraging consumers to conserve and make the =
best=A0</DIV><DIV>=A0 =A0 =A0use of it.</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>Joe =
McGuckin</DIV><DIV>ViaNet Communications</DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><A =
href=3D"mailto:joe@via.net">joe@via.net</A></DIV><DIV>650-207-0372 =
cell</DIV><DIV>650-213-1302 office</DIV><DIV>650-969-2124 =
fax</DIV><DIV><BR class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR =
class=3D"khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><BR =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"></SPAN></SPAN></DIV><BR></DIV></BODY><=
/HTML>=
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