[91401] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Hot weather and power outages continue
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Frank Bulk)
Mon Jul 24 23:14:14 2006
Reply-To: <frnkblk@iname.com>
From: "Frank Bulk" <frnkblk@iname.com>
To: "'Daniel Senie'" <dts@senie.com>
Cc: <nanog@merit.edu>
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 22:12:56 -0500
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060724220918.06b105f0@senie.com>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
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In the state of Iowa the PUC is called the Iowa Utility Board (IUB).
According to the IUB, each CO must provide 2 hours of battery reserve (not
4, as I said), and if the C.O. serves over 4000 lines, a generator is
required.
http://www.legis.state.ia.us/Rules/2003/iac/199iac/19922/19922pp1.pdf
Page 26, 22.6(5)
Frank
_____
From: Daniel Senie [mailto:dts@senie.com]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 9:12 PM
To: frnkblk@iname.com
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: RE: Hot weather and power outages continue
At 09:59 PM 7/24/2006, Frank Bulk wrote:
Depending on the state you live in, the PUC generally requires 4 to 8 hours
of dialtone if it's generated from the C.O. Dialtone generated from SLC may
not be explicitly covered under the rules.
So when they moved about 1/2 of the town from CO to SLC, they got out of the
obligation to provide dial tone in power outage? That seems, ummm,
interesting. Will be interesting to see what the police chief learns (I'm on
a town board that works closely with the police, so he and I get to talk
often and get along well). He was quite concerned to learn about the
telephone outages that happen.
Thanks for the info. I will follow up with the PUC folks as well and see
what they have to say. The Verizon service folks did tell me they expected
dialtone to work during power failures, and kept claiming it must be my
telephones that are at fault (plugging a very basic, known-functional POTS
phone into the network interface says they're wrong).
Regards,
Frank
_____
From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [ <mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu>
mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Senie
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 5:47 PM
To: Brandon Galbraith
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Hot weather and power outages continue
At 06:26 PM 7/24/2006, Brandon Galbraith wrote:
While hardwired (fiber/coax/copper) aggregation points usually don't have
backup power on them, most cellular towers have either batteries or
generators for backup power, correct?
We see good cable modem connectivity during power outages. Batteries must
still be good in the HFC nodes in our area. Verizon POTS service, on the
other hand, dies when the power does. The batteries in their SLC units are
toast. I've got the local police chief off conversing with the Verizon E911
folks to find out why it's OK to have no 911 service to a large part of town
when there's no power (Verizon repair kept trying to tell me it must be my
equipment, despite testing at the network interface).
I am looking at moving telephone services off to Comcast or VOIP because
they're more reliable than Verizon is, in my particular neighborhood.
-brandon
On 7/24/06, William S. Duncanson <caesar@starkreality.com > wrote:
Indeed, my RoadRunner connection is the same way. All of my stuff stays up,
but "teh Interweb is broken." I'm guessing that they (DSL/CableCo's) find it
too cost-prohibitive to roll out UPSes to the customer aggregation points.
Suprisingly, my cable TV goes out as well when the power goes, so it might
just be more than the CMTS that's going out.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog@merit.edu <mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu> [
mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu] On Behalf Of
Michael Loftis
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 16:20
To: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Hot weather and power outages continue
--On July 24, 2006 2:22:26 AM -0400 Sean Donelan <sean@donelan.com> wrote:
> While its expected for individual customers to go down during power
> outages, usually because the customer does not have local backup
> power, it is less common for major web sites and co-location centers
> to experience downtime during power outages.
Except if you're in Qwest territory. Apparently they don't put any battery
backup at their mini-DSLAMs and such. Every time we lose power, I'm still
up, but the DSL signal goes away. Haven't checked dialtone, but I keep
meaning too during the next outage.
Now I know it's not exactly fair singling out Qwest, because I'll bet
Verizon and others share the same thing, and I'm pretty sure it's just their
ADSL service and not the voice service (I haven't checked though) it's
still becoming more and more common that as an individual user your
connection to the internet, unless you're paying for something other than
ADSL or Cable, will be just as affected by local power outages.
--
Brandon Galbraith
Email: brandon.galbraith@gmail.com
AIM: brandong00
Voice: 630.400.6992
"A true pirate starts drinking before the sun hits the yard-arm. Yarrrr.
--thelost"
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<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D818530003-25072006><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>In the state of Iowa the PUC is called the Iowa =
Utility=20
Board (IUB). </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D818530003-25072006><FONT=20
face=3DTahoma color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>According to the IUB, each CO =
must provide 2=20
hours of battery reserve (not 4, as I said), and if the C.O. serves over =
4000=20
lines, a generator is required.<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.legis.state.ia.us/Rules/2003/iac/199iac/19922/19922pp1=
.pdf">http://www.legis.state.ia.us/Rules/2003/iac/199iac/19922/19922pp1.p=
df</A><BR>Page=20
26, 22.6(5)<BR></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><SPAN class=3D818530003-25072006><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Frank</DIV></FONT></SPAN><BR>
<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader lang=3Den-us dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft>
<HR tabIndex=3D-1>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> Daniel Senie =
[mailto:dts@senie.com]=20
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 24, 2006 9:12 PM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
frnkblk@iname.com<BR><B>Cc:</B> nanog@merit.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: =
Hot=20
weather and power outages continue<BR></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV></DIV>At 09:59 PM 7/24/2006, Frank Bulk wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Depending on the state you live in, the PUC generally =
requires 4 to 8=20
hours of dialtone if it's generated from the C.O. Dialtone =
generated=20
from SLC may not be explicitly covered under the=20
rules.</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>So when they moved about 1/2 of the town =
from CO=20
to SLC, they got out of the obligation to provide dial tone in power =
outage?=20
That seems, ummm, interesting. Will be interesting to see what the =
police chief=20
learns (I'm on a town board that works closely with the police, so he =
and I get=20
to talk often and get along well). He was quite concerned to learn about =
the=20
telephone outages that happen.<BR><BR>Thanks for the info. I will follow =
up with=20
the PUC folks as well and see what they have to say. The Verizon service =
folks=20
did tell me they expected dialtone to work during power failures, and =
kept=20
claiming it must be my telephones that are at fault (plugging a very =
basic,=20
known-functional POTS phone into the network interface says they're=20
wrong).<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite"><BR><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Regards,<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT face=3DTahoma =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>Frank<BR></FONT><BR>
<HR>
<FONT face=3DTahoma size=3D2><B>From:</B> owner-nanog@merit.edu [<A=20
href=3D"mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu" eudora=3D"autourl">=20
mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu</A>] <B>On Behalf Of </B>Daniel=20
Senie<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, July 24, 2006 5:47 PM<BR><B>To:</B> =
Brandon=20
Galbraith<BR><B>Cc:</B> nanog@merit.edu<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Hot =
weather and=20
power outages continue<BR></FONT><BR>At 06:26 PM 7/24/2006, Brandon =
Galbraith=20
wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">While hardwired=20
(fiber/coax/copper) aggregation points usually don't have backup =
power on=20
them, most cellular towers have either batteries or generators for =
backup=20
power, correct?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>We see good cable modem connectivity =
during=20
power outages. Batteries must still be good in the HFC nodes in our =
area.=20
Verizon POTS service, on the other hand, dies when the power does. The =
batteries in their SLC units are toast. I've got the local police =
chief off=20
conversing with the Verizon E911 folks to find out why it's OK to have =
no 911=20
service to a large part of town when there's no power (Verizon repair =
kept=20
trying to tell me it must be my equipment, despite testing at the =
network=20
interface).<BR><BR>I am looking at moving telephone services off to =
Comcast or=20
VOIP because they're more reliable than Verizon is, in my particular=20
neighborhood.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dcite cite=3D"" type=3D"cite">-brandon<BR><BR>On =
7/24/06,=20
<B>William S. Duncanson</B> <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:caesar@starkreality.com">caesar@starkreality.com</A> =
>=20
wrote:=20
<DL>
<DD>Indeed, my RoadRunner connection is the same way. All of =
my=20
stuff stays up,=20
<DD>but "teh Interweb is broken." I'm guessing that they =
(DSL/CableCo's)=20
find it=20
<DD>too cost-prohibitive to roll out UPSes to the customer =
aggregation=20
points.=20
<DD>Suprisingly, my cable TV goes out as well when the power goes, =
so it=20
might=20
<DD>just be more than the CMTS that's going out.<BR>
<DD>-----Original Message-----=20
<DD>From: <A =
href=3D"mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu">owner-nanog@merit.edu=20
</A>[ <A href=3D"mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu"=20
eudora=3D"autourl">mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu</A>] On Behalf Of=20
<DD>Michael Loftis=20
<DD>Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 16:20=20
<DD>To: <A href=3D"mailto:nanog@merit.edu">nanog@merit.edu</A>=20
<DD>Subject: Re: Hot weather and power outages continue =
<BR><BR><BR><BR>
<DD>--On July 24, 2006 2:22:26 AM -0400 Sean Donelan <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:sean@donelan.com">sean@donelan.com</A>> =
wrote:<BR>
<DD>> While its expected for individual customers to go down =
during=20
power=20
<DD>> outages, usually because the customer does not have local =
backup=20
<DD>> power, it is less common for major web sites and =
co-location=20
centers=20
<DD>> to experience downtime during power outages.<BR>
<DD>Except if you're in Qwest territory. Apparently they =
don't put=20
any battery=20
<DD>backup at their mini-DSLAMs and such. Every time we lose =
power,=20
I'm still=20
<DD>up, but the DSL signal goes away. Haven't checked =
dialtone, but=20
I keep=20
<DD>meaning too during the next outage.<BR>
<DD>Now I know it's not exactly fair singling out Qwest, because =
I'll bet=20
<DD>Verizon and others share the same thing, and I'm pretty sure =
it's just=20
their=20
<DD>ADSL service and not the voice service (I haven't =
checked=20
though) it's=20
<DD>still becoming more and more common that as an individual user =
your=20
<DD>connection to the internet, unless you're paying for something =
other=20
than=20
<DD>ADSL or Cable, will be just as affected by local power=20
outages.<BR><BR></DD></DL><BR><BR><BR>-- <BR>Brandon =
Galbraith<BR>Email: <A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:brandon.galbraith@gmail.com">brandon.galbraith@gmail.com</=
A><BR>AIM:=20
brandong00<BR>Voice: 630.400.6992<BR>"A true pirate starts drinking =
before=20
the sun hits the yard-arm. Yarrrr. --thelost"=20
</BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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