[86172] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Customer view vs. operator view was:( h-root-servers.net)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Peter Dambier)
Mon Oct 24 19:41:16 2005
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:40:35 +0200
From: Peter Dambier <peter@peter-dambier.de>
Reply-To: peter@peter-dambier.de
To: Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
In-Reply-To: <OF50A56103.A22386E2-ON802570A4.004CB049-802570A4.004D8105@btradianz.com>
Errors-To: owner-nanog@merit.edu
Thank you Michael,
for throwing light into this.
Yes, I see, Sabri and me are on two different rails, one leading north,
the other one leading east. I hope Sabri still has got all his hairs.
I am counting mine now.
Kind regards and thank you again,
Peter Dambier
Michael.Dillon@btradianz.com wrote:
>>>I know of one host here in germany who can see h.root-servers.net.
>>>That host is living in a KPN data centre directly connected to
>
> Amterdam
>
>>>IX.
>>
>>Your own traceroute clearly shows that your host is not directly
>>connected to the AMS-IX. Nor does the KPN datacenter it resides in. The
>>AMS-IX has 4 datacenters where members can place equipment which can be
>>directly connected to the AMS-IX:
>>
>>- GlobalSwitch;
>>- Sara;
>>- Nikhef;
>>- Telecity2, Kuiperbergerweg;
>>
>>Every statement otherwise is bogus, nonsense, crap or whatever term you
>>prefer to use for this.
>
>
> This is a good example of a useless argument caused when one
> person is speaking from a customer viewpoint and one customer
> is speaking from an operator viewpoint.
>
> Assume that there is an ISP X with a data center in Germany
> and a colocated rack at Nikhef. They peer directly with many
> other providers through AMS-IX from their Nikhef location.
> Customer Q comes along and places a server in their data centre
> in Germany because he needs to serve his users both in Germany and
> in his chain of hotels throughout Holland. His network people assure
> him that the server is connected directly to AMS-IX because that
> is what their traceroutes say.
>
> Of course, we know better. We know that the server is connected
> directly to ISP X and indirectly to AMS-IX because we are
> used to being particular about which operator owns each
> hop. But the customer Q doesn't see the hops in network X.
> To him, they are invisible because they are his HOME network.
> Customers don't see themselves as network operators and therefore
> they often think of their ISP's network as their own.
>
> So who is right? Peter? Sabri? Both?
> My opionion is that neither of them is right because they
> both failed to understand what the real problem is and
> they both failed to take the correct steps to solve the
> problem. As it happens, this was a very, very basic
> network issue which does not need to be discussed on
> NANOG at all.
>
> --Michael Dillon
>
--
Peter and Karin Dambier
Public-Root
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D-64646 Heppenheim
+49-6252-671788 (Telekom)
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mail: peter@peter-dambier.de
mail: peter@echnaton.serveftp.com
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http://www.kokoom.com/iason
