[68037] in North American Network Operators' Group
First Post! Annoying Debate at Work.
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Christopher Aldridge)
Sun Feb 29 05:31:26 2004
Date: Sun, 29 Feb 2004 05:31:22 -0500
From: "Christopher Aldridge" <christopher.aldridge@iscan.net>
To: <nanog@merit.edu>
Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu
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NOTE: I have been a nanog observer for nearly a year. The following may
be slightly off topic, but it seems as though nanog is my last hope.
=20
Recently at work, I've been battling fellow coworkers on a very simple
debate. The fact that I will not "give in" on my argument really makes
me look arrogant, but I absolutely refuse to let this one go without
logical reason!
=20
The argument non-persuasively put is as follows:
=20
Is a USB Ethernet Adapter a "converter"?
=20
Personally, I say "no".
=20
My coworkers seem to say "yes".
=20
My argument:
1) Ethernet isnt "converted" to USB. The adapted information from
the ethernet segment may traverse the USB segment if the NIC adapts it
to the CPU, but is never "converted" to USB.
=20
You can use USB for many things, thus making it an underlying
"serial bus" in which other technologies can traverse.=20
=20
Whatis.com definition: USB (Universal Serial Bus) is a
plug-and-play interface between a computer and add-on devices (such as
audio players, joysticks, keyboards, telephones, scanners, and
printers). With USB, a new device can be added to your computer
without having to add an adapter card or even having to turn the
computer off.=20
=20
USB in this scenario would be synonymous with PCI, in regards
to the type of technology that interfaces with the cpu.
=20
=20
2) I cant seem to place "converter" above layer 1. Yet a Network
adapter ( both PCI or USB ) have layer 2 mac addresses that are stored
into the PROM from the manufactor. From my understanding, if an ethernet
frame comes in via cat5, and is destined for the wrong MAC address, the
traffic will not move up the OSI model and to the PC; It will be dropped
right there and then. Only frames destined for the correct MAC or
broadcast will traverse the USB portion. If this is true, then aparantly
our "converter" is doing a lot more than "converting" ethernet to "USB"!
- Filtering, forwarding, encapsulating, de-encapsulating, etc.
=20
=20
3) Just because a device has two physical mediums of connectivity,
dosent make it a "converter". My coworkers argue that a USB Ethernet
adapter is an "Ethernet to USB Converter". If this is true, then the
following could be said:
=20
a. A PCI Ethernet Adapter is a "converter" because it
"converts" Ethernet to PCI.
b. An Alcatel switch w/ a T1 and a DS3 controller card
would be a "converter" because it "converts" cat5 from the T1 card to
coax on the DS3 card.
c. Lastly ( I love this one ), An integrated Ethernet
adapter on a motherboard is a "converter" because it "converts" ethernet
to uhh ?? processor? Riiiiight"
=20
=20
My co-workers arguments are basically that because Ethernet is plugged
into one side, and usb is plugged into the other, it's a converter.
I strongly that's an understament if not an incorrect statement. Whats
your take and why?
Input from ANY of you would be GREATLY appreciated. Otherwise, a simple
"I aggree with you" will be fine also!
=20
Thanks in advance!
=20
Christopher Aldridge
Network Analyst
CCNA/MCP/MCSA
=20
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>NOTE: I have been a nanog observer for nearly a =
year. The
following may be slightly off topic, but it seems as though nanog is my =
last
hope.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Recently at work, I’ve been battling fellow
coworkers on a very simple debate. The fact that I will not “give
in” on my argument really makes me look arrogant, but I absolutely =
refuse
to let this one go without logical reason!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>The argument non-persuasively put is as =
follows:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Is a USB Ethernet Adapter a =
“converter”?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Personally, I say =
“no”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>My coworkers seem to say =
“yes”.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>My argument:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>1) Ethernet =
isnt
“converted” to USB. The adapted information from the =
ethernet
segment may traverse the USB segment if the NIC adapts it to the CPU, =
but is
never “converted” to USB.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; You
can use USB for many things, thus making it an underlying “serial
bus” in which other technologies can traverse. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; Whatis.com
definition: USB (Universal Serial Bus) is a plug-and-play interface =
between a
computer and add-on devices (such as audio players, joysticks, =
keyboards,
telephones, scanners, and printers). With USB, a new device can be added =
to
your computer without having to add an adapter =
card or
even having to turn the computer off. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; USB
in this scenario would be synonymous with PCI, in regards to the type of
technology that interfaces with the cpu.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>2) I cant seem =
to
place “converter” above layer 1. Yet a Network adapter ( =
both PCI
or USB ) have layer 2 mac addresses that are stored into the PROM from =
the
manufactor. From my understanding, if an ethernet frame comes in via =
cat5, and
is destined for the wrong MAC address, the traffic will not move up the =
OSI
model and to the PC; It will be dropped right there and then. Only =
frames
destined for the correct MAC or broadcast will traverse the USB portion. =
If this
is true, then aparantly our “converter” is doing a lot more =
than
“converting” ethernet to “USB”! -
Filtering, forwarding, encapsulating, de-encapsulating, =
etc.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>3) Just because =
a
device has two physical mediums of connectivity, dosent make it a
“converter”. My coworkers argue that a USB Ethernet adapter =
is an
“Ethernet to USB Converter”. If this is true, then the =
following
could be said:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; a. A
PCI Ethernet Adapter is a “converter” because it =
“converts”
Ethernet to PCI.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; b. An
Alcatel switch w/ a T1 and a DS3 controller card would be a
“converter” because it “converts” cat5 from the =
T1 card
to coax on the DS3 card.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'> &nbs=
p; c. Lastly
( I love this one ), An integrated Ethernet adapter on a motherboard is =
a
“converter” because it “converts” ethernet to =
uhh
?? processor? Riiiiight”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>My co-workers arguments are basically that because
Ethernet is plugged into one side, and usb is plugged into the other,
it’s a converter.<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>I strongly that’s an understament if not an
incorrect statement. Whats your take and =
why?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><br>
Input from ANY of you would be GREATLY appreciated. Otherwise, a simple =
“I
aggree with you” will be fine also!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Thanks in advance!<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><st1:PersonName w:st=3D"on"><font size=3D2 =
face=3DVerdana><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Christopher =
Aldridge</span></font></st1:PersonName><font
size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>Network Analyst<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 face=3DVerdana><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Verdana'>CCNA/MCP/MCSA<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
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