[47218] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Large ISPs doing NAT?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Daniska Tomas)
Tue Apr 30 14:18:20 2002
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Date: Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:17:15 +0200
Message-ID: <A44DA7EDD8262343B02C64AF7E063A0712844B@kenya.ba.tronet.sk>
From: "Daniska Tomas" <tomas@tronet.com>
To: <nanog@merit.edu>
Errors-To: owner-nanog-outgoing@merit.edu
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tony Rall [mailto:trall@almaden.ibm.com]=20
> Sent: 30. apr=EDla 2002 19:59
> To: nanog@merit.edu
> Subject: Re: Large ISPs doing NAT?
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> On Monday, 2002-04-29 at 08:43 MST, Beckmeyer=20
> <beck@pacbell.net> wrote:
> > Is anybody here doing NAT for their customers?
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> I hope not.
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> If you're NATing your customers you're no longer an ISP. =20
> You're a sort-of-tcp-service-provider (maybe a little udp=20
> too). NAT (PAT even more
> so) breaks so many things that it would be unconscionable to=20
> advertise as an ISP. Even some tcp apps fail under NAT. The=20
> NAT box may include a number of "fix-ups" but such will never=20
> be equivalent to giving the customer a public address.
well.. yes and no.
depends on definition and how you set the services. i don't know how you =
treat this in u.s. but in europe gprs is mostly considered being a =
value-added service to gsm instead of a real internet connectivity =
replacement.
if you think of gprs a bit it will never have enough capabilities to =
serve as a full-time inet service. it's a great solution for accessing =
your data remotely but it's very limited in means of capacity
and then you have those 'pdp-contexts' or how they call it. it's just =
another acronym for a vpn... if a corporate user requires full ip =
connectivity then why not give him a vpn uplink directly to their hq and =
the users can safely use private addresses according to corporate =
policy. in this way gprs is very similar to mpls. i have worked on =
gprs-mpls vpn integration and it works just fine.
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> An Internet Service Provider gives the customer a full=20
> connection to the Internet. All IP protocols should work.
you also may give the [common] user an opportunity to have 'limited' =
service set (so you can use private addresses + nat/pat) for lower price =
or pay a bit more for 'full' service. i think the 'limited' in real life =
can safely cover requirements of 95% of the customers. do you think they =
will download mp3's and avi's via gprs? how? :)) from my point of view =
if you cover http, e-mail and various similar services you will provide =
most user with more than they ever would expect, wouldn't you?
> I'm in favor of using NAT only where there is a good argument=20
> for it and the customers are given the straight story about=20
> what they're buying and what it won't be able to do. Don't=20
> call yourself an ISP.
...=20
> Tony Rall
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deejay
--
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Tomas Daniska
systems engineer
Tronet Computer Networks
Plynarenska 5, 829 75 Bratislava, Slovakia
tel: +421 2 58224111, fax: +421 2 58224199
=20
A transistor protected by a fast-acting fuse will protect the fuse by =
blowing first.
