[32977] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Port scanning legal
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mathew Butler)
Tue Dec 19 21:25:35 2000
Message-ID: <F062E72E4BA2D4119F1700B0D03D205F3A8E@mail.tonbu.com>
From: Mathew Butler <mbutler@tonbu.com>
To: 'Christian Kuhtz' <ck@arch.bellsouth.net>, mdevney@teamsphere.com
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 18:17:44 -0800
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Great, so you're suggesting punishing good locksmiths or windowmen.
-Mat Butler
-----Original Message-----
From: Christian Kuhtz [mailto:ck@arch.bellsouth.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:35 PM
To: mdevney@teamsphere.com
Cc: nanog@merit.edu
Subject: Re: Port scanning legal
On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:26:33PM -0800, mdevney@teamsphere.com wrote:
> I do not understand why people get so uppity about a scan. Let's be real
> here, a simple portscan is about equivalent to walking along a sidewalk
> and checking out the houses for open windows and doors. And about as
> harmful.
>
> What is harmful is what sometimes comes after that. (Not always; not
> usually; not even half the time I'd bet.) But the only damage a portscan
> does is a few packets over your network and maybe 4M of logs (depending on
> how you're logging). When writing and enforcing laws, it's important to
> punish what's harmful, not what may be harmful. Or else looking at houses
> as you walk down the street may be illegal.
I do think there is a difference between looking at houses and windows
from the street and walking up to them and rattling the door and windows to
see if it they are locked or determining what model lock, door or window
is used etc.
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Great, so you're suggesting punishing good locksmiths or windowmen.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-Mat Butler</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Christian Kuhtz [<A HREF="mailto:ck@arch.bellsouth.net">mailto:ck@arch.bellsouth.net</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:35 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: mdevney@teamsphere.com</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Cc: nanog@merit.edu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: Port scanning legal</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 04:26:33PM -0800, mdevney@teamsphere.com wrote:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> I do not understand why people get so uppity about a scan. Let's be real</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> here, a simple portscan is about equivalent to walking along a sidewalk</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> and checking out the houses for open windows and doors. And about as</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> harmful.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> What is harmful is what sometimes comes after that. (Not always; not</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> usually; not even half the time I'd bet.) But the only damage a portscan</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> does is a few packets over your network and maybe 4M of logs (depending on</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> how you're logging). When writing and enforcing laws, it's important to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> punish what's harmful, not what may be harmful. Or else looking at houses</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> as you walk down the street may be illegal.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>I do think there is a difference between looking at houses and windows </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>from the street and walking up to them and rattling the door and windows to </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>see if it they are locked or determining what model lock, door or window</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>is used etc.</FONT>
</P>
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