[31785] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: decreased caching efficiency?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Dana Hudes)
Fri Oct 20 11:59:18 2000
Message-ID: <010401c03aae$6ad8fda0$3d5cdcd1@hudes.org>
From: "Dana Hudes" <dhudes@hudes.org>
To: "William Allen Simpson" <wsimpson@greendragon.com>,
<nanog@merit.edu>
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:57:15 -0400
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I think you have a few misconceptions.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "William Allen Simpson" <wsimpson@greendragon.com>
To: <nanog@merit.edu>
Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: decreased caching efficiency?
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> Dana Hudes wrote:
> > From: "William Allen Simpson" <wsimpson@greendragon.com>
> > > That seems to follow "not make any sense", but YMMV.
> >=20
> > No, you are interfering with my revenue stream by preventing my=20
> getting credit for the banner impression.
> >=20
> Your bad business models are not my problem.
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> As I wrote before (and you didn't respond):
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> > > Last time I looked, there's no constitutional right that
> > > guarantees that you can make money.
> > >
certainly true and the same is applicable to you.
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> > right. your customers pay you to get them the packets they asked for =
and if
> > they want to visit my site and see my content and your cache breaks =
that,
> > you're not delivering what your customers requested. My site won't =
deliver
> > content in most of the pages without the ads displaying.=20
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> Interesting, if true.
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> For example, I use Netscape. Netscape has long had the wonderful=20
> feature that images aren't loaded, unless I hit the Images button. =20
> Only rarely do I ever want to see images.
Then why the heck would you visit my photo gallery? to read the =
captions??
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> Don't forget Opera, iCab, and other fine browsers that automatically=20
> filter out various styles of junk.
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Hmm. I'll have to check out Opera. If indeed it prevents ads, I'll have =
to add=20
JavaScript to prevent Opera users from viewing my photos.
> And all of them use a disc and/or memory cache.
Memory copies are an interesting secondary issue. There has been =
litigation on this
unrelated to the Internet that held that loading a program into RAM from =
disc is making a copy
and requires a license. The issue was some sort of systems maintenance =
company which wasn't licensed.
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> So, your site won't load, and customers just go on to the next site. =20
> Actually, that just means fewer and fewer folks will visit your site,=20
> and fewer and fewer folks will buy your hosting. =20
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No, you've got it wrong. The ads are on the pages. Apache, at the =
moment,
knows nothing of the ads. Anyone I provide virtual hosting for is paying =
money
and can do any legal thing they want with their content. They want ads, =
they go make
their own deals. This isn't angelfire or yahoo.=20
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> > > Interesting, if true. Perhaps you could provide a citation?
> >=20
> > show me where I licensed your cache to store (copy) my photographs
> > or that it constitutes fair use.
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> You don't seem to have answered the question.
I guess I'll cite the entire copyright law....USC Title 31 isn't it?
I'll have to look.
But there is always the case law. And even if I gave you case citation =
you would
not interpret it properly.
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> I believe that you explicitly granted the access to your material,=20
> using DNS and BGP and by responding to the HTTP get request. I don't=20
> understand how I access it otherwise.
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> Alternatively, I cannot carry your IP packets at all. Therefore,=20
> at such time as you tell everyone on NANOG your network numbers=20
> carrying your strictly licensed material, we'll be happy to filter=20
> your BGP announcements, up to and until you explicitly give us=20
> permission to carry them again..
You are being highly silly as you confuse layer 3 with layer 7 packets =
for a particular application.
why are you on the side of theives?
My photo pages are supported by advertising. I am the copyright holder =
for the photos and the pages. The license to view the photos is =
dependent on the display of the banner ads. If you view the photos =
without the ads, absent some other license negotiated with the owner of =
the copyright, you are stealing
from me.
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> > I volunteer as plaintiff if one of the lurking attorneys will =
volunteer to
> > make some case law by suing cache using sites for copyright =
violation.=20
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> I'll be happy to volunteer as defendant.
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> William Allen Simpson
> 1384 Fontaine
> Madison Heights MI 48071
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> Although I would appreciate waiting a few months, as I already have=20
> a case going at 6th Circuit, and I'm an expert witness in another. =20
> I really prefer not to handle more than 1 or 2 at a time -- it's too=20
> distracting from real life.
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