[29880] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: RBL-type BGP service for known rogue networks?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Richard Irving)
Sun Jul 9 00:06:21 2000
Message-ID: <3967F8DF.636C088C@onecall.net>
Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 23:00:31 -0500
From: Richard Irving <rirving@onecall.net>
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To: Steve Sobol <sjsobol@NorthShoreTechnologies.net>
Cc: North America Network Operators Group Mailing List <nanog@merit.edu>
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Steve,
IMHO, I have had problems with the "hair trigger" ORBS.
Which you say is Allen.....
Personally, I have not seen such behavior out of MAPS.
My .04,
(Sorry, getting too popular, had to raise the price)
:)
Steve Sobol wrote:
>
> [sigh... I thought this wasn't going to turn into a big debate]
>
> "Greg A. Woods" wrote:
>
> > It is critically important to also realise that "ORBS" itself doesn't
> > "go crazy" and do these things -- such "rogue net-block" listings are
> > directly a result of pressure from ORBS users.
>
> The issue isn't with ORBS, it's with Alan Brown, the administrator.
>
> Alan runs what could be a useful service, but if you don't allow him
> to test your systems, he adds you to a "static" list... in his defense,
> this is NOT a list of systems that have tested as open relays, but many
> people block sites on that list too, even if there is no documented
> spam coming from those IP's.
>
> It's ridiculous. He also doesn't stop when told not to probe people's
> networks. RoadRunner and AboveNet both blocked him because he refused
> to honor the requests to stop, and of course they both were subsequently
> placed on the list of untestable systems.
>
> I will offer this one data point: I welcome ORBS relay tests. I have
> given Alan specific, permanent permission to run the tests against my
> servers. Not too long ago, I had a server that I configured with
> Linuxconf, not realizing that Linuxconf uses an old sendmail ruleset
> that leaves your server open to third-party relaying. I am eternally
> grateful that ORBS found the server - it had been running that way
> for at least a year, and I thought it was closed. (We're extremely
> lucky no one spammed through it.)
>
> But I will not use ORBS as a spamblocking tool.
>
> > Accusing ORBS of political powerplay and vigilantism is wrong since it
> > is not ORBS, nor even its users, but rather the "rogue" net-block
> > administrators who are playing political power games.
>
> Alan's a good guy, but the "rogue" net-block administrators aren't
> the issue. Alan is.
>
> > e-mail). To this end an impartial and independent testing service such
> > as ORBS
>
> ORBS isn't always "impartial."
>
> > Finally it cannot be pointed out enough times that the administrators of
> > the so-called "rogue" blocks need only change their attitudes and
>
> Yeah, ok. RoadRunner isn't rogue. Neither is AboveNet.
>
> > Being irrational about public testing of public services
>
> I'm sorry. If you're doing something to my network, and I ask you
> not to do it, you stop. If you do not stop, I block you (and
> possibly complain to your service provider.) You do not have
> the ultimate right to determine what I do with my network. I own
> the network, and as the network owner, I am the one with that
> right.
>
> Maybe people aren't justified in asking Alan to stop. That doesn't
> justify Alan ignoring them.
>
> --
> North Shore Technologies, Cleveland, OH
> http://NorthShoreTechnologies.net
> Steve Sobol, BOFH - President, Chief Website Architect and Janitor
> Pictures of two of my 'children': http://www.WrinkleDogs.com
> About Spamfighters: "We're not net nazis. We're dot communists." - W.
> Arnold
