[195403] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Bell outage
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Rod Beck)
Mon Aug 7 11:07:42 2017
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com>
To: Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc>
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2017 15:07:37 +0000
In-Reply-To: <CAL9Qcx7Gu2igACuOeHzdnvE=G2psXDqqKQ+vHqR7e5fw+ZZg9w@mail.gmail.com>
Cc: Jason Lixfeld <jason@lixfeld.ca>, "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Yeah, I am one of the sales guys for this project across Lake Ontario. It i=
s called Crosslake.
- R.
________________________________
From: Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc>
Sent: Monday, August 7, 2017 4:59 PM
To: Rod Beck
Cc: Jason Lixfeld; nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Bell outage
( Buffalo resident here.)
That's pretty much true. From Toronto down around the lake, most of the fib=
er paths follow the QEW, although I think I saw a map once that had some do=
wn the 406. The challenge then becomes the Niagara River. There are only re=
ally 3 good points north of Niagara Falls to cross the gorge, the Rainbow /=
Whirlpool Rapids / Lewiston-Queenston. (There is an old train bridge just =
south of Whirlpool Rapids, but it's pretty decrepit.) Even then, L/Q is the=
only option that's generally feasible to reach, and has any decent infrast=
ructure on the US side.
To my knowledge, most everything goes south to the Peace Bridge . into Buff=
alo proper, and over to 350 Main Street. Just about everyone in this region=
comes through there, except for Level3. (They're close, down on Scott Stre=
et, and just stub up to Main. But even they don't actually have a gateway t=
here, they still pull people back to NY/Cleveland.)
I know there is a group trying to do a cable directly across Lake Ontario t=
o my neck of the woods, which would be really interesting if it happens. Yo=
u could save potentially 60k-ish with a direct path vs coming around and do=
wn, and there's a surprisingly decent volume of in-region glass in the grou=
nd on different paths. Plus much of the area north of Buffalo to the lake i=
s rural farmland, so building something new wouldn't be terribly hard or ex=
pensive either.
Crossing the lake itself is a challenge though. Lake Ontario is really deep=
, and there are steep underwater cliffs off the mouth of the Niagara River =
(~50m drop over less than 1km) , and again on the eastern side of Toronto. =
If they can work around that to get something run, I think it could be a ve=
ry intriguing path. I'm a little biased because I think it could be a great=
boon for my area ; putting datacenter space in around here is basically fr=
ee compared to space up there, and you'd be <5ms from Toronto, and ~10ms fr=
om NYC.
On Fri, Aug 4, 2017 at 6:13 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com<m=
ailto:rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com>> wrote:
I am pretty sure most of the fiber runs counterclockwise from Toronto to Bu=
ffalo. Just a fact.
- R.
________________________________
From: Jason Lixfeld <jason@lixfeld.ca<mailto:jason@lixfeld.ca>>
Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 11:48 PM
To: Rod Beck
Cc: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>; ahebert@pubnix.net<mailto:aheb=
ert@pubnix.net>
Subject: Re: Bell outage
I think having a lake right in the middle makes a really nice, natural, div=
erse route between the two locations, as is the case with the many routes r=
unning east and west around the lake out of both 151 Front and 350 Main. I=
t=92s great for non latency sensitive traffic if your short path fails, but=
it sucks for latency sensitive traffic if your short path fails.
What=92s the solution in that case if you need geo diverse, low latency rou=
tes between two longish haul points that can only be connected by one major=
highway and one major railway, and where there=92s a large likelihood that=
the even a single route would have to use both those pathways? I=92m sure=
it's trivial to get geo diverse routes out of any major carrier hotel, but=
what about the in between bits?
> On Aug 4, 2017, at 4:54 PM, Rod Beck <rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com<mai=
lto:rod.beck@unitedcablecompany.com>> wrote:
>
> Well, imagine what happens when you have a body of water like Lake Ontari=
o separating the key hubs on each side of the border, 151 Front Street and =
350 Main Street. The fiber is probably stacked parallel around the lake and=
at certain points is collapsed into one right of way.
>
>
> - R.
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: NANOG <nanog-bounces@nanog.org<mailto:nanog-bounces@nanog.org>> on =
behalf of Alain Hebert <ahebert@pubnix.net<mailto:ahebert@pubnix.net>>
> Sent: Friday, August 4, 2017 10:34 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org<mailto:nanog@nanog.org>
> Subject: Re: Bell outage
>
> Well,
>
> We have a case where 2 paths, between 151 front to somewhere in
> Markham, ended up overlapping 3 times for about 300m total :(
>
> And to cap the whole thing off... Enter the building thru the same
> conduit.
>
> You pretty much need to be onsite supervising the whole thing up.
>
> And yes their files have the circuits going thru a home, what looks
> like a gas station, an electrical grids, etc =3DD. Pretty impressive.
>
> PS: As rodent, you mean the punks that fire bomb "that" conduit
> under "that" bridge, a few years back?
>
> -----
> Alain Hebert ahebert@pubnix.net<mailto:ahe=
bert@pubnix.net>
> PubNIX Inc.
> 50 boul. St-Charles
> P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7
> Tel: 514-990-5911<tel:514-990-5911> http://www.pubnix.net Fax: 514-99=
0-9443<tel:514-990-9443>
PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://ww=
w.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service th=
at offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to=
providing you ...
> PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://=
www.pubnix.net/>
PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://ww=
w.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service th=
at offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to=
providing you ...
> www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net><http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://ww=
w.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service th=
at offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to=
providing you ...
> PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service =
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed =
to providing you ...
>
>
>
> On 08/04/17 15:07, Ken Chase wrote:
>> And can be hard to know without serious dilligence - two of our upstream=
s
>> happened to go through the same 360 networks conduit in montreal that "s=
aw
>> significant rodent activity". Both were down for 6 hours. A couple custo=
mers
>> had some custom apps that relied on the two, each as redundancy to the o=
ther.
>>
>> That didnt work out.
>>
>> Getting salesdroids to give you the info can be very hard though, and ev=
en
>> tech dept's may not know what secondary providers their fibres run throu=
gh or
>> where, readily.
>>
>> /kc
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 04, 2017 at 02:57:22PM -0400, Alain Hebert said:
>>> Well,
>>>
>>> Saying they provided you with geographically diverse circuits versus
>>> actually doing it, happen way too often.
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Alain Hebert ahebert@pubnix.net<mailto:a=
hebert@pubnix.net>
>>> PubNIX Inc.
>>> 50 boul. St-Charles
>>> P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7
>>> Tel: 514-990-5911<tel:514-990-5911> http://www.pubnix.net Fax: 514-=
990-9443<tel:514-990-9443>
PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://ww=
w.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service th=
at offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to=
providing you ...
> PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://=
www.pubnix.net/>
PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://ww=
w.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service th=
at offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to=
providing you ...
> www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net><http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX Inc. =96 Branch=E9 sur le monde =96 Connected to the World<http://ww=
w.pubnix.net/>
www.pubnix.net<http://www.pubnix.net>
PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service th=
at offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed to=
providing you ...
> PubNIX is a boutique Internet service provider with personalized service =
that offers you an alternative to "Big Telco". At PubNIX, we are committed =
to providing you ...
>
>
>>
>
