[194960] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: Vendors spamming NANOG attendees
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mel Beckman)
Tue Jun 13 22:34:58 2017
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
From: Mel Beckman <mel@beckman.org>
To: Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org>
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2017 02:34:50 +0000
In-Reply-To: <20170614015808.DF69F7BA9F2C@rock.dv.isc.org>
Cc: "nanog@nanog.org" <nanog@nanog.org>, Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
Mark,
What law makes the harvesting of email addresses illegal? None that I know =
of.=20
-mel via cell
> On Jun 13, 2017, at 6:58 PM, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> In message <F7E1F127-E971-4E92-AF44-13193BD0E27F@beckman.org>, Mel Beckma=
n writes:
>> Mark,
>>=20
>> The problem with your idea is that these NANOG attendee emails aren't
>> illegal under CAN-SPAM. This toothless Act let's anyone email any addres=
s
>> they want, however obtained, with virtually any content (except sexually
>> explicit), as long as they don't use misleading headers, deceptive
>> subject lines, or obscure the fact that the email is an ad. Those
>> features, plus clear identification of the originator and an opt-out
>> mechanism, let anyone send unlimited spam.
>=20
> The act of harvesting the email addresses is illegal which makes
> the subsequent emails illegal even if they meet all the other
> requirements of the CAN-SPAM act.
>=20
>> So, in reality, these so-called NANOG spammers are within the law. We
>> just don't like what they're doing.
>>=20
>> We definitely can't sue them as you advise. In fact, individual CANT use
>> under CAN-SPAM. Only we network operators can.
>>=20
>> Thanks for nothing, Congress.
>=20
> As someone with stonger local anti-spam legislation that has to put
> up with the spam from US sources I have to agree.
>=20
> Mark
>=20
>> -mel via cell
>>=20
>>> On Jun 13, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Mark Andrews <marka@isc.org> wrote:
>>>=20
>>>=20
>>> In message <38E506A8-247A-478F-9C4D-21602BEE6028@beckman.org>, Mel
>> Beckman writes:
>>>> That still leaves the question: how to you invoke this financial
>>>> punishment? Prohibit NANOG members from buying their products?
>>>=20
>>> Everyone that has received the email bring a action under the
>>> CAN-SPAM act. Really if you don't want the list to be harvested,
>>> which is illegal under the act, bring the action. Opt out doesn't
>>> save the sender if they have already committed a illegal act.
>>>=20
>>> Mark
>>>=20
>>>> -mel via cell
>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Jun 13, 2017, at 10:12 AM, Rich Kulawiec <rsk@gsp.org> wrote:
>>>>>>=20
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 13, 2017 at 03:31:46PM +0000, Mel Beckman wrote:
>>>>>> Sometimes they're ignorant and don't realize they're spamming.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> That excuse stopped being viable sometime in the last century. They
>>>> know
>>>>> exactly what they're doing, they're just counting on the prospective
>>>>> gains to outweigh the prospective losses. If they're right, then the
>>>>> spamming will not only continue, it will increase. (As we've seen:
>>>>> over and over and over again.) That's because they don't care about
>>>>> being professional or responsible or ethical: they only care about
>>>> profits.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> So the choice is clear: either make it plain to such "people" (if I
>>>>> may dignify sociopathic filth with that term) that this is absolutely
>>>>> unacceptable and that it will have serious, immediate, ongoing
>> negative
>>>>> financial consequences, or do nothing while the problem escalates
>>>>> indefinitely.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> If you give people the means to hurt you, and they do it, and
>>>>> you take no action except to continue giving them the means to
>>>>> hurt you, and they take no action except to keep hurting you,
>>>>> then one of the ways you can describe the situation is "it isn't
>>>>> scaling well".
>>>>> --- Paul Vixie, on NANOG
>>>>>=20
>>>>> ---rsk
>>>=20
>>> --
>>> Mark Andrews, ISC
>>> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
>>> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
>=20
> --=20
> Mark Andrews, ISC
> 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia
> PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org
